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post #11 of 39
Thread Starter 
I actually thought the Define Nano S had good air flow, for an ITX case. Obviously compared to other larger cases its a whole different story. This time around I went with a more simple build, not going total overkill like I normally have. Hence the i5 6500 on a H110 chipset. Still more than enough power for my usage. (75% general, 25% gaming) Anyways, as you could tell my system shouldn't be generating too much heat. My friend tried recommending a top down cooler, but I figured that was a horrible idea and I feel these should only be used when you don't have the height available for a tower cooler.

You made a good point with the bottom venting. I don't see much good it can do other than for the PSU of course. I wonder if cutting a piece of black rubber sheeting to fit the opening would help with positive air flow? Probably not a whole lot with only having a single 120mm exhaust. I plan on upgrading the fans eventually.
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbyte View Post

I actually thought the Define Nano S had good air flow, for an ITX case. Obviously compared to other larger cases its a whole different story. This time around I went with a more simple build, not going total overkill like I normally have. Hence the i5 6500 on a H110 chipset. Still more than enough power for my usage. (75% general, 25% gaming) Anyways, as you could tell my system shouldn't be generating too much heat. My friend tried recommending a top down cooler, but I figured that was a horrible idea and I feel these should only be used when you don't have the height available for a tower cooler.

You made a good point with the bottom venting. I don't see much good it can do other than for the PSU of course. I wonder if cutting a piece of black rubber sheeting to fit the opening would help with positive air flow? Probably not a whole lot with only having a single 120mm exhaust. I plan on upgrading the fans eventually.
With a blower design and/or low wattage GPU you will be okay.
It's not a terrible case as ITX cases go. I'm an airflow nut .. have worked with air cooler for over 40 years in one way or another for street and race cars to computers. The thing I've seen 'designed' but so called experts in airflow and cooling have always amazed me at how crazy stupid some of them are. Designing a cae with 2x 140mm front intakes in front and a solid panel with only a 120mm vent for exhuast is just plaing idiotic! Any half-witted 10 year old knows there is no way to flow 2x 140mm vent out a 120mm vent! mad.gif If the Nano S had back panel venting more like Define R5 with a 140mm fan or Phanteks Enthoo Luxe do (with as much venting as possible in back of case) it would flow almost twice the air. but instead they vented the entire bottom .. which is good for PSU intake in the back part, but the front part is removing airflow that has just entered. doh.gif

You might find "Ways to Better Cooling" linked in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topics to see them. 5th topic is a good place to start.
post #13 of 39
Thread Starter 
I think having a blower GPU and cutting a piece of black rubber sheeting will help with airflow a lot.

The bottom 140mm intake fan will be essentially feeding the GPU, which will be exhausting out the rear of the case. The top 140mm intake fan will be feeding the Cryorig M9i, which will be feeding the 120mm exhaust.

I would cut the black rubber sheeting to fit perfectly in the space between the front of the PSU and the front of the case.

As for the fans, as much as I like Noctua I want to stick with my black and white color theme. I also plan to get white sleeved cables for the PSU. I am thinking Corsair AF 140s for the front and a Corsair SP 120 for the rear. Think the SP 120 would "pull" more air? I know it "pushes" more air. lol

I am still unsure what GPU I am going to go with. The MSI 1070 Aero would go perfectly with my build. Not only does it go with my black and white theme, the Msi logo on the side of the card would obviously match the Msi logo on my motherboard chipset heatsink. (I'm a little OCD) A 1070 would definitely be more than enough power for my needs for years to come. However, a 1060 would be more in line with my actual needs and usage.

I don't really have a "budget". However, I don't like just wasting money either.
post #14 of 39
in all honesty... i actually don't think it matters too much in this case biggrin.gif

yes the PSU is blocking airflow, but in a chassis like this, it's less of a problem. he has 2x140mm intake which will deliver massive amount of airflow in a VERY small volume of space. meaning he will be replacing the air inside the case quite rapidly. yes ideally you want some vent holes on top of the GPU slots, but considering the proximity of the rear exhaust and the overall volume of air in the case, it's less of a problem. personally i'd move the rear exhaust fan and place it on the floor in front of the PSU as intake fan that way you have 2x140mm and 1x120mm intake with no exhaust fan. there are PLENTY of vent holes at the roof and rear exhaust port that you don't actually need forced exhaust as long as you have good intake.

what we have to keep in mind is the total volume of the case. 2x140mm intake can already replace the air inside the case maybe 40x per min (depending on fan profile) there isn't ALOT of cubic feet inside that case so the amount of cooling is already phenomenal. so what if the PSU is blocking some airflow to the GPU, the surface area provided by an internal exhaust GPU cooler will still cost less decibel to run then a blower cooler at gaming loads CONSIDERING how quickly he's replacing the air inside the case.

generally, internal exhaust GPU coolers are not efficient since they heat up your internal components. but in this case, the heat that is absorbed by the CPU HSF will actually act as a fan controller. hotter the GPU, the more heat is absorbed by the CPU HSF and CPU heats up. and as CPU heats up, the front intake fan automatically speed up to feed more cool air for both the CPU and GPU. it will take some time to fine tune your fan speed in bios but once it's done, it should work very well.

IMO either card will work well. however i still feel the internal exhaust card will offer a slightly lower acoustic profile under gaming loads.
post #15 of 39
It doesn't matter how much air is going through the case if the fan for the GPU heatsink is more or less blocked.

If there is a flat surface in front of a fan within a certain distance the fan will cavitate and not blow any air at all. A small gap can be completely useless.
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post #16 of 39
Thread Starter 
I see where you both are coming from. I am probably overthinking this like always, but I am honestly thinking about returning my PSU to Amazon. I would replace it with an SFX-L PSU which are much shorter in "height" but still have a decent 120mm fan unlike straight SFX PSUs. This would create a much larger space between the GPU and PSU. I have no issue with the downtime, as I currently don't have a GPU anyways. (I would actually buy the SFX-L and just return my current PSU once it arrived) One nice thing about this would be future case options. Being I have an iTX system, I would be able to transition it into ANY iTX case.

As for fan profiles, one reason I went with MSI for my motherboard was because I like their fan control via BIOS. I can set 4 temp targets to 4 fan speeds for both the CPU fan header and the SYS fan header. I have all 3 case fans on a 3 way to the SYS fan header and even though these are all 3 pin including the 3 way splitter, I still have full control because the 4th pin on the SYS fan header is actually dead and the 3rd pin is what controls the speed. (voltage) I did think this was kind of odd when I seen it in the manual. The CPU fan header is a true 4 pin with the 4th pin controlling the rpm. The SYS fan header is a 4 pin header, but the 4th pin is labled as NC (No Connection) and the 3rd pin controls rpm via voltage.

Now that I think about it though, it doesn't really matter. The 1070 I like is the MSI Aero, which is a blower fan card for $409. If I decide to stick with a 1060, I am going to be sick of not having a GPU by the time it is released and will be ordering the release / reference model, hence blower card. So I guess I am kind of answering my own thread. lol

On a side note, what about the 400/460/520 Seasonic FL2 fanless PSUs. With this in my case, the GPU would essentially be pulling air from the rear of the case through the PSU. Or would this just be feeding my GPU hot air... lol



The reason I bring up this option is because the Seasonic Fanless PSU + Open Air GPU = one quiet system.

Reading back on this post makes me realize how indecisive I really am. I think I just need to be happy with and appreciate what I already have. lol
Edited by Techbyte - 7/3/16 at 6:49pm
post #17 of 39
Thread Starter 
Ed from Sapphire just sent me this picture. Apparently he was one step ahead of my idea. What do you think? I would be going SFX-L for the better / quieter fan and added length so it wouldn't look AS goofy. I also wanted to show you all a good picture of how close an Open Air GPU would really be to my PSU





Edited by Techbyte - 7/3/16 at 7:00pm
post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbyte View Post

Ed from Sapphire just sent me this picture. Apparently he was one step ahead of my idea. What do you think? I would be going SFX-L for the better / quieter fan and added length so it wouldn't look AS goofy. I also wanted to show you all a good picture of how close an Open Air GPU would really be to my PSU.

I would go with the SFX-L PSU. It would give your GPU a little bit of extra breathing room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbyte View Post



In that picture, the smaller PSU is not blocking the holes in the back of the case, whereas in your first picture the larger PSU would be. I can't really say how much of a difference that would make in terms of temperature, but if you're going for quiet and cool simultaneously, then having as much air into and out of your case is your best bet.

As far as a blower type GPU or Custom cooler GPU, I guess that is up to you. Personally, the noise of a blower would probably drive me nuts.

Also, if you want other options for fans other than corsair that stick to your build color scheme, you could check out the selections from Phanteks (the site is not working for me at this moment, I'll come back shortly and link to it for you). I'm sure there are more options I'm not thinking of, too tired right now.
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post #19 of 39
As others are saying, the SFX-L style PSU size would make a big difference. But Corsair PSUs are very hit and miss. Some are quite good while others are utter garbage. I don't know who makes their SF series so have no idea if they are any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

in all honesty... i actually don't think it matters too much in this case biggrin.gif

yes the PSU is blocking airflow, but in a chassis like this, it's less of a problem. he has 2x140mm intake which will deliver massive amount of airflow in a VERY small volume of space. meaning he will be replacing the air inside the case quite rapidly. yes ideally you want some vent holes on top of the GPU slots, but considering the proximity of the rear exhaust and the overall volume of air in the case, it's less of a problem. personally i'd move the rear exhaust fan and place it on the floor in front of the PSU as intake fan that way you have 2x140mm and 1x120mm intake with no exhaust fan. there are PLENTY of vent holes at the roof and rear exhaust port that you don't actually need forced exhaust as long as you have good intake.

what we have to keep in mind is the total volume of the case. 2x140mm intake can already replace the air inside the case maybe 40x per min (depending on fan profile) there isn't ALOT of cubic feet inside that case so the amount of cooling is already phenomenal. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
so what if the PSU is blocking some airflow to the GPU, the surface area provided by an internal exhaust GPU cooler will still cost less decibel to run then a blower cooler at gaming loads CONSIDERING how quickly he's replacing the air inside the case.

generally, internal exhaust GPU coolers are not efficient since they heat up your internal components. but in this case, the heat that is absorbed by the CPU HSF will actually act as a fan controller. hotter the GPU, the more heat is absorbed by the CPU HSF and CPU heats up. and as CPU heats up, the front intake fan automatically speed up to feed more cool air for both the CPU and GPU. it will take some time to fine tune your fan speed in bios but once it's done, it should work very well.

IMO either card will work well. however i still feel the internal exhaust card will offer a slightly lower acoustic profile under gaming loads
.
The problem is not the 2x 140mm intake fans. The problem is the case does not have 2x 140mm of exhaust area of airflow .. What comes into case much have a way out. In this case it only has 1x 120mm exhaust vent, so in this case the 2x 140mm intake fans can only flow 1x 120mm vent of air though the case. Obviously there will be a small amount air leaking out other small holes in the case, and if the front half of bottom vent is not block the balance will flow out there. But If the front half of bottom is left open that airflow is not doing anything to help cool components.

You keep talking about case volume, but honestly case volume means little to nothing.
It does not matter if the case is small or large, If both cases have same intake and exhaust venting and fans, they will flow the same amount of air.

You talk about how 'replacing the air inside the case quite rapidly'.
It is not important how many times the air is replaced. What is important is how cool the air is going into components.

It is all about supplying components with cool air. The closer to room ambient the better.
If we have 2 identical systems,
one with air being replaced 5 times a minute with the air flowing into components is 10-20c above room ambient ..
the other with air being replaced 1 time a minute with the air flowing into components is 3-5c above room ambient,
which one will be running cooler?

Yup, the components in the one flowing 1/5th as much air is running 5-17c cooler ..

Again, even though one case is flowing a fraction as much air and making much less noise, it's components are 5-17c cooler.

Case only needs to flow a little more air than components use ..
Remove components hot air ..
without mixing with cool airflow supplying components..
No hot air mixing and heating up the cool air means components runs cool.

Edited by doyll - 7/4/16 at 5:51am
post #20 of 39
Silverstone and be quiet! make solid SFX PSUs. The BQ is an FSP oem, I can't remember who makes the Silverstone.
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