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[NY Times] First Fatal Self Driving Tesla Crash - Page 2

post #11 of 238
How is this allowed on the roads ??? Are people to lazy to drive now or its more convenient to talk on cellphones now while driving....lol.

The dumbing down affect seems to be working. thumb.gif
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post #12 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by incog View Post

i would drive myself and not trust ai with my life

I do like the idea of some sort of driver assistant, but never fully autonomous.

Apparently nobody thought of this variable?
Quote:
the car’s sensor system, against a bright spring sky, failed to distinguish a large white 18-wheel truck and trailer crossing the highway.
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post #13 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

All current infotainment and driver assist techs have a disclaimer when the car starts up that basically says "Do not let this item distract you. You are still in control and responsible if a crash occurs." I'm pretty sure Tesla has done the same thing with their tech.

I hate to see the loss of life, but this just proves that it is an "assist" feature more than full autonomy. This means that if a crash occurs, it is unfortunately the driver's fault for not paying attention. Only once a car is fully autonomous does the fault move away from the person and to the machine. None of Tesla's current models are fully autonomous.

I disagree myself. Tesla bears some blame to me because it was incredibly irresponsible for them to release this feature before it was ready. They might have legal cover, but their actions are immensely irresponsible.

They should have known their software is much different from, say, Facebook or Apple. If Facebook pushes out buggy code, people can't post their concert pictures or they can't message their friends through Facebook. It's annoying, but ultimately it's highly unlikely anything of true consequence would happen.

Tesla doesn't have that luxury, and it should have been blatantly obvious to them from the start. If they push out a buggy or imperfect autopilot software, it can (and did) lead to deaths. It doesn't matter what their disclaimer says - they should have known from the start that their autopilot would be abused and misused. It's very common knowledge among anyone working in any technical field, be it software or automobiles or construction, that end users can be abusive or flat out incompetent. You can't engineer something with reasonable limitations, post a disclaimer on those limitations, and expect people to follow it when there are literal lives at stake.

The immediate reaction to the autopilot feature confirms this. Within the first 24 hours, we see people using the feature on roads it was not meant for, people being absolutely distracted behind the wheel of the car and not in a position to regain immediate control, and really people just using the feature in a way that was never intended.

Ultimately if the reports of the man being distracted are true, the majority of the blame lies on him. That said, Tesla does have some blame as well for pushing out an incomplete and possibly buggy feature and expecting users to behave responsibly when both short and long term history shows this is never the case.
post #14 of 238
Tesla's system is made for assistance, not self reliance. It tells you before hand to be reponsible and to remain in control of thr vehicle at all times.

It's a shame this happened but you should never let go of the wheel. No matter what someone or thing tells you. It's common sense.
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post #15 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by r31ncarnat3d View Post

I disagree myself. Tesla bears some blame to me because it was incredibly irresponsible for them to release this feature before it was ready. They might have legal cover, but their actions are immensely irresponsible.

They should have known their software is much different from, say, Facebook or Apple. If Facebook pushes out buggy code, people can't post their concert pictures or they can't message their friends through Facebook. It's annoying, but ultimately it's highly unlikely anything of true consequence would happen.

Tesla doesn't have that luxury, and it should have been blatantly obvious to them from the start. If they push out a buggy or imperfect autopilot software, it can (and did) lead to deaths. It doesn't matter what their disclaimer says - they should have known from the start that their autopilot would be abused and misused. It's very common knowledge among anyone working in any technical field, be it software or automobiles or construction, that end users can be abusive or flat out incompetent. You can't engineer something with reasonable limitations, post a disclaimer on those limitations, and expect people to follow it when there are literal lives at stake.

The immediate reaction to the autopilot feature confirms this. Within the first 24 hours, we see people using the feature on roads it was not meant for, people being absolutely distracted behind the wheel of the car and not in a position to regain immediate control, and really people just using the feature in a way that was never intended.

Ultimately if the reports of the man being distracted are true, the majority of the blame lies on him. That said, Tesla does have some blame as well for pushing out an incomplete and possibly buggy feature and expecting users to behave responsibly when both short and long term history shows this is never the case.

Tesla has stated that Autopilot tech is in Beta multiple times. That means the software is not finalized, and at this point, they are trying to find and correct bugs. Unfortunately, this is one of them. No software out there is perfect, which is why the driver should keep their eyes on the road when autopilot is engaged.

This is also part of the reason that autonomy still has a long way to go. Before cars are able to become fully autonomous, the software has to literally be 99.9% accurate. This means that game-breaking bugs have to be almost non-existent. Telsa pushed out the feature because it was ready for road use. However, the Tesla Autopilot feature is not a replacement for driver common sense and sensibilities.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 7/2/16 at 10:27am
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post #16 of 238
I still think its silly to push the blame onto someone else for this. When has watching a movie while driving ever been acceptable? Do people think you no longer are responsible for any accidents from *your* car that *you* were driving?

If I drive say, a new Mazda3 with automated braking assistance, and rear-end you. Would you accept the excuse "Well my car was supposed to do it on its own!"?
     
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post #17 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Tesla has stated that Autopilot tech is in Beta multiple times. That means the software is not finalized, and at this point, they are trying to find and correct bugs. Unfortunately, this is one of them. No software out there is perfect, which is why the driver should keep their eyes on the road when autopilot is engaged.

I understand that, and I argue it was irresponsible for them to release it anyways. Even if they were absolutely blind to user behavior with technology over the past multiple decades, they should have paid attention to all the videos on YouTube posted immediately after they released the feature to know that users are actively abusing the feature despite the disclaimers.

Additionally, "no software out there is perfect" is irrelevant. There's a huge difference between an obscure low level bug no one really saw coming and shipping out software they knew had major flaws and was incomplete when the consequences of those flaws were human lives. Companies like Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, etc. have extremely stringent testing protocols to ensure things like this do not happen. NASA even publishes both formal and informal descriptions of their software development processes to minimize potential bugs as strictly as possible. All of these companies deal with human lives, yet Tesla's software practices would never fly in any of those other companies I mentioned. To me, Tesla gets an unfair pass because it's the consumer tech industry's current darling child. When Toyota was exposed for writing spectacularly terrible code, they (rightfully) got torn apart by both the public and by engineers. Tesla did something equally irresponsible, but right now it feels like people think their disclaimer should absolve them of all blame.
Edited by r31ncarnat3d - 7/2/16 at 10:32am
post #18 of 238
Edit - responded before I finished reading the thread, disregard.
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post #19 of 238
No matter how good this tech becomes i will never own a vehicle with this crap.
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post #20 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoray View Post

No matter how good this tech becomes i will never own a vehicle with this crap.

In 10 years this will be in every single vehicle.
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