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[NY Times] First Fatal Self Driving Tesla Crash - Page 11

post #101 of 238
Tesla has said numerous times that the autopilot feature is not self driving and is simply intended as assisted driving. Maybe one day it will be capable of self driving but until ever car does it there will be accidents caused by them because very few people follow laws to the level that are hard coded into most self driving features. That is the main problem that everyone has found and is the reason systems like the one George Hotz is working on uses AI learning.

I don't think there is anyone to blame here besides the two human drivers. One of which wasn't paying attention and one of which turned in front of him.
post #102 of 238
Would the AI be improved via that new nvidia machine in 2017?
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post #103 of 238
It is unfortunate that someone had to lose their life, but honestly it was sadly inevitable under any form of driving. It's impressive that it took so long. No one is pretending that autonomous driving systems (which this wasn't) will be perfect or better than any human all of the time, they just have to be better than most humans most of the time. Happily, or sadly, this is not hard.

A lot of the reaction strikes me as the old adage of a poor workman blames their tools. As many people have pointed out this is a driver assist system, not a autonomous driving system, and if you use any tool improperly it has the potential to hurt you. Such things have been options on production cars for a while now too, for example BMW have their lane keeping and traffic jam system, Ford has a braking pre-charge system, and so on.

Also I remember that one of the guys working on the Google self driving car program said in a presentation that autonomous driving should be an all or nothing system - either the computer takes complete control or the human does, no half measures like this driver assist system. His argument was that without a clear division of responsibility the driver would get complacent, leading to situations just like this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeianoite View Post

Maybe you shouldn't let a machine control the vehicle you're in? Maybe? LOL, sounds like stupid people to me. Oh well, another one bites the dust.

So you drive a manual transmission car without cruise control, power steering, ABS, electronic engine management, or any other electronics then?

Interesting.
Edited by GingerJohn - 7/4/16 at 9:46am
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post #104 of 238
What happens when a tire blows or the car starts sliding on oil in highway or there is a puddle of water in the highway? How can this system tackle them?
post #105 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Also I remember that one of the guys working on the Google self driving car program said in a presentation that autonomous driving should be an all or nothing system - either the computer takes complete control or the human does, no half measures like this driver assist system. His argument was that without a clear division of responsibility the driver would get complacent, leading to situations just like this one.

Which is exactly what I said, it's just human nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iARDAs View Post

What happens when a tire blows or the car starts sliding on oil in highway or there is a puddle of water in the highway? How can this system tackle them?

This is why these systems are going to take so long to perfect, and even when we think they are perfect things will happen that will make you want to tear your hair out because it's just a computer.
post #106 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waitng4realGPU View Post

These arguments are totally different to the ones about seatbelts , ABS etc. This is a poor attack on people with valid arguments and claiming 'but I guess they don't learn' to try to invalidate their intelligence/viewpoint............pathetic.

It reminds me of politics, anybody raising points against this new safety technology must be some anti safety loon.
Totally agree.

I notice you, like all the other naysayers in this thread carefully ignore the meat of my argument: If the system whatever it's flaws reduces accidents and fatalities over unassisted driving it is of benefit whatever isolated cases of failure occur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iARDAs View Post

What happens when a tire blows or the car starts sliding on oil in highway or there is a puddle of water in the highway? How can this system tackle them?

It will respond how it's programmed to respond. Said programming will with time respond better then humans can do so (and probably already does).
post #107 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

So you drive a manual transmission car without cruise control, power steering, ABS, electronic engine management, or any other electronics then?

Interesting.

In fact, 5 years ago I learned how to drive in a vehicle just like the one you described.

Fortunately (or not), nowadays in Brazil all new cars must have ABS and power steering.
post #108 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by axiumone View Post

In 10 years this will be in every single vehicle.
And I will switch it off in every single vehicle I own, too.

Maybe someday they can make this technology work and be reliable, but I can think of a hundred other technologies I'd rather see developed than auto-mode for land-based vehicles.
     
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post #109 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

I notice you, like all the other naysayers in this thread carefully ignore the meat of my argument: If the system whatever it's flaws reduces accidents and fatalities over unassisted driving it is of benefit whatever isolated cases of failure occur.

You are right but then go explain that to people that just lost a family member due to what I would call a flaw in the system.

Overall it is going to improve statistics no doubt, I don't think that's what people's problem with the tech is.

Also how do you tell someone that never has accidents that they should use this? There's plenty of people who have multiple accidents in their life and fudge the stats for good drivers.

If you are going to bundle everyone into a naysayer category then is it fair that we bundle you into a shill for the technology category? Calling someone a naysayer is just another word to invalidate people's views so congrats.
Edited by Waitng4realGPU - 7/4/16 at 10:24pm
post #110 of 238
Volvo has a fleet of cars driving on their own in Sweden now to promote even more 'independence' at the wheel. They did take a jibe at Tesla a few months ago saying their system is extremely unreliable and unpolished. At the time, everyone laughed and said Volvo is just annoyed at how far Tesla is with their products. Heck, I am not a Volvo fan and I laughed at them for dissing Tesla. Now this incident came along and it seems some of the Volvo engineers knew what they were on about.

According to sources, the system and driver could not have prevented the collision. Some say even without the auto-pilot, the guy would have still hit the vehicle and died. Without the feature, everyone would have categorised this in the human error basket. The cause of most accidents unfortunately. With the system on, the ethical question of 'who is responsible' arises. We will never know truly if the accident would have happened with him in full control.

I drive along living my daily life, i have a car crashing into me. After investigations it is found that due to a malfunction in the auto-pilot I am crippled, best case scenario, for life and we all move on with our little lives? I assume the engineer from Tesla will be arrested in my case.

In today's society we do not need this uncertainty on the roads. thumb.gif
 
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