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[NY Times] First Fatal Self Driving Tesla Crash - Page 15

post #141 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

A deer at night is probably one of the easier things for sensors to see. A combination of radar and thermal imaging should be more then enough to see a deer and react to it far better then human eyes can.

And this sort of thing could be used for assisted systems as well before fully autonomous cars. You might not see the deer (or the child darting into the street), but the driving assist might see it and brake in time to avoid a collision for you. Sorta like the systems that they have now to brake to avoid rearending people for those who follow too close and don't pay enough attention.

Every system can have flaws though. A deer against a background that's exactly the same temperature as the deer is might be a point of failure, sorta the same way this truck wasn't seen properly by the tesla. But even if there are isolated failures of such a system where occasionally a deer isn't seen, the system would still bring benefit in that it would prevent more accidents then unassisted driving alone.

A couple luxury brands of cars have thermal sensors specifically to detect humans and animals well ahead of what we can as people. Fairly certain the higher tier Mercedes have it available, along with auto breaking. Someone might want to double check specifically which make it is.

Either way, even years ago Cadillac had an option for a HUD on the windshield that used thermal to show you creatures in the dark.

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post #142 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

A couple luxury brands of cars have thermal sensors specifically to detect humans and animals well ahead of what we can as people. Fairly certain the higher tier Mercedes have it available, along with auto breaking. Someone might want to double check specifically which make it is.

Either way, even years ago Cadillac had an option for a HUD on the windshield that used thermal to show you creatures in the dark.

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Can a human with those extra sensors be better than a self driving car?
post #143 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana Chan View Post

Can a human with those extra sensors be better than a self driving car?

No.

We simply can't react fast enough. If humans were as capable as computer systems, we wouldn't have a need for computer systems.

What a lot of people don't seem to take into consideration is that computer systems have been driving our cars by large for a long time now. The only thing we are doing, and doing a terrible job at, is working a wheel and a few pedals. The actual control of the braking, acceleration, to some degree turning even, is all ultimately controlled by a computer already.

The majority of drivers on the road can't even drive a manual transmission, or would even be able to properly use the brakes in a vehicle without an ABS system. Mainly due to the fact that when things go South, people tend to panic and lock up - including smashing down the brake and holding on.

Honestly, and not directed at you or anyone on the forums - this is just out loud,, any person that thinks they are better at driving than computer systems is an idiot.

EDIT: Used the wrong 'brake' a few times!
    
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post #144 of 238
Yep. About the only thing we are good at is a certain amount of prediction, and even then it is only a matter of time before the cumulative experience of self driven cars is either better or negates this advantage.

A lot of people like to point to people like racing drivers as an example of why computers can't drive well, and whilst it is true that humans can still push cars to the limits better, that forgets the fact that the overwhelming majority of drivers on the road are nowhere near as skilled as those people.
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post #145 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Yep. About the only thing we are good at is a certain amount of prediction, and even then it is only a matter of time before the cumulative experience of self driven cars is either better or negates this advantage.

A lot of people like to point to people like racing drivers as an example of why computers can't drive well, and whilst it is true that humans can still push cars to the limits better, that forgets the fact that the overwhelming majority of drivers on the road are nowhere near as skilled as those people.

Also race drivers don't have to worry about wrong way drivers, opposing traffic of any sort, animals, people, etc, etc. They already know that if they look in their mirror and see something, it is another very specific type of vehicle. They know direction of travel, intent, etc. There is a lot of information a race driver doesn't need to consider on the track. In truth it is very hard to compare a race driver and racing to driving on open roads, even when it is a race driver doing the driving on the open road.

One environment is very structured and closed, the other is open and very chaotic. Not to discredit what they can do, it is that just compared to autonomous systems they still suck. The best driver in the world is closer in skill to the worst driver in the world, than to the skill of a proper autonomous system.
    
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post #146 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana Chan View Post

Can a human with those extra sensors be better than a self driving car?

A human with all of those sensors would probably be more dangerous than one without them. Too many stimuli to process accurately or efficiently. A computer doesn't have this problem. It will respond to hundreds of concurrent inputs faster than you can respond to a single input even when you're expecting something to go wrong (and nobody does that while driving).
    
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post #147 of 238
Stupid people shouldn't breed and make more stupid people, it is stupid to let a ai drive for you. conclusion: Darwinism at work. smile.gif
post #148 of 238
they specifically tell you not to do anything stupid while in auto mode, so if this idiot didnt have his hands on the wheel during this incident, 100% his fault without question, guy was an idiot. Next.
post #149 of 238
The driver was demonstrably not stupid or an idiot. SEAL Team 6 member and top notch EOD tech and one of Tesla's elite. He was even recognized by Elon himself for his autopilot "saved my life" video, a highlight of his life. He made a bad decision. The bad decision he made was turning complete control over to the autopilot he so proudly touted as saving his life weeks earlier. He turned control over to this autopilot with a thorough understanding of how it worked. And for those of you blaming the truck driver: Do you believe an 18 wheeler can turn 90 degrees in front of you faster than you can react? No way. 13 feet tall and 50 feet long (approx) and the autopilot drove right into it without slowing down. I am not against the idea of robot cars and tech like this will save lives, but in this case it did not even see there was a problem until impact (maybe not even then). Any driving tech that depends on a human to "take over" on short notice is a bad idea. Driver alertness does not snap on and off quickly and safely. Drivers should stay alert the whole time they are driving and when they can't they should stop driving. Don't believe me just read any driving safety literature.

If this tech had not existed on his drive home, he would have seen the truck, slowed down until it was not an issue, and then kept going on home.
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post #150 of 238
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure none of the Tesla vehicles can really be called self driving cars. The "autopilot" is apparently a powerful form of driver assistance, but it is not an autonomous vehicle.

From the Tesla Motors website:

"Tesla requires drivers to remain engaged and aware when Autosteer is enabled. Drivers must keep their hands on the steering wheel."

This implies to me that the driver of a Tesla is still ultimately responsible for the behavior of the vehicle.
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