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[NY Times] First Fatal Self Driving Tesla Crash - Page 17

post #161 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


lachen.gif

Come on, friend, you know your argument has run out of steam when you have to fall back on stating you can "predict" anything.

As someone who has been professionally trained to drive, who has gone through it on both the side of Law Enforcement and sport. Someone who has literally peeled people off roads.....Your driving sucks, just like all our driving when compared to what fully autonomous vehicles can do.

As for "crowded" areas? Yes, yes they have. Google's car has logged over a million miles in some of the most crowded streets.

Ignoring both your and my personal experiences, because frankly they meant squat to the conversation at large, the few self driving cars we have are already multiple factors safer than humans. I am not talking a driver assist technology like Tesla's "Auto-pilot", although it too is far better and safer. I am talking about the few fully autonomous vehicles licensed for use today. They are far safer than humans.

Laugh as much as you like but as more computers will drive on the streets we as going to see more and more accidents.
In the end if I drive like a computer there are very small chances I will ever have an accident but put an autonomous car in Budapest and it will never be able to get from point A to point B faster than me, never.
I've seen how this autonomous cars drive, slow like an 80 year old man which takes forever to make decisions.
And no offence but you don't sound like a good driver.
post #162 of 238
Autonomous cars will pay off much more in the long term than the short term. The more there are, the safer they are. Autonomous cars don't need to "predict" reckless drivers if there are none.
    
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post #163 of 238
Unless its a Transformer, kill it with fire. thumb.gif
 
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post #164 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serios View Post

Laugh as much as you like but as more computers will drive on the streets we as going to see more and more accidents.
In the end if I drive like a computer there are very small chances I will ever have an accident but put an autonomous car in Budapest and it will never be able to get from point A to point B faster than me, never.
I've seen how this autonomous cars drive, slow like an 80 year old man which takes forever to make decisions.
And no offence but you don't sound like a good driver.

Dude no offense... but you're delusional.

We will see more accidents involving autonomous cars and assist cars as time goes on yes, but overall accidents will decline as human drivers are removed from the roads. And if by taking forever to make decisions you mean effectively instantaneously since it's a computer then I guess you're right. And who cares if autonomous cars won't be able to handle places like budapest? In civilized countries there are modern roads with traffic lights and lines and rules which are for the most part obeyed by drivers. Autonomous cars have already demonstrated that they can operate here, so if they simply can't handle budapest... oh well. Sucks to be them.
post #165 of 238
We'll see how it works when at least 5% of the cars in traffic are autonomous, then we would be able to make relevant statistics.
A lot of things apparently work when they are in test phase but does not mean things will stay the same when they will be in people's hands.

And I'm talking about decisions like I'm in a hurry and I have to change a few lanes fast, concentrate at other divers and predict they will let me pass and so on.

Budapest is a very civilised city, it's impressive really, it has a lot of buildings that were built during the old empire, it has a history of hundreds of years and a common problem for European cities, a large portion of it's streets are small, extremely crowded and it's very hard to get from one point to another in a reasonable amount of time without forcing the speed limits and forcing other drivers to let you pass etc.
Autonomous cars can't drive better than a human, we are just talking about a situation where the subjective decisions humans make are eliminated, that is all. If I make a 30 minutes trip which is nothing for me and the sky is clear, visibility is great and there are very few cars on the road how can a car drive better? it simply can't.

If the guy that died would have been at the wheel he would still have had a chance.
OK the car couldn't see because of the sun but what is the normal reaction when a person can't see the road? what is the first thing he does? Could it be that he reduces the speed?
post #166 of 238
Well, next time drive it yourself, oh wait! There is no next time for people who let an undeveloped AI drive their car.
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post #167 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serios View Post

Laugh as much as you like but as more computers will drive on the streets we as going to see more and more accidents.
In the end if I drive like a computer there are very small chances I will ever have an accident but put an autonomous car in Budapest and it will never be able to get from point A to point B faster than me, never.
I've seen how this autonomous cars drive, slow like an 80 year old man which takes forever to make decisions.
And no offence but you don't sound like a good driver.

Strictly speaking you are correct on the first point. More autonomous cars on the road will lead to more autonomous car accidents, but it will be a similar percentage of a large number. It is a simple expected value problem.

But you are falling into the trap of believing that because the technology isn't good enough now that it never will be. History is littered with people who have said something will never be done and subsequently been made fools of.

"I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible." Lord Kevin, 1896

"everything that can be invented has been invented" - Charles H. Duell, 1899

Though I feel the need to reiterate that the incident in question DID NOT INVOLVE AN AUTONOMOUS CAR. The Tesla will beep at you if you take your hands off the wheel during autopilot. Despite the name, the system is not designed to drive for you, and Tesla says as much in all the literature I can find regarding it.
post #168 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serios View Post

Budapest is a very civilised city, it's impressive really, it has a lot of buildings that were built during the old empire, it has a history of hundreds of years and a common problem for European cities, a large portion of it's streets are small, extremely crowded and it's very hard to get from one point to another in a reasonable amount of time without forcing the speed limits and forcing other drivers to let you pass etc.

If everyone is doing this then it's no wonder there's traffic chaos. Perhaps if everyone drove more conservatively there would be a net increase in vehicle throughput.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serios View Post

OK the car couldn't see because of the sun but what is the normal reaction when a person can't see the road? what is the first thing he does? Could it be that he reduces the speed?

The flaw here is that the car didn't know it couldn't see the other vehicle, not that it simply failed to react. I guess you could argue that it suffered from the Dunning-Kruger effect. smile.gif Of course, most drivers do as well. Nevertheless, it is important that true autonomous cars do not lack this "meta perception" or they will be putting people at unnecessary risk, even if that risk is lower than that caused by people's terrible reflexes.
    
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post #169 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarOne View Post

Though I feel the need to reiterate that the incident in question DID NOT INVOLVE AN AUTONOMOUS CAR. The Tesla will beep at you if you take your hands off the wheel during autopilot. Despite the name, the system is not designed to drive for you, and Tesla says as much in all the literature I can find regarding it.

Here is some Tesla literature (in YT form) that sure makes it look like an autopilot. Did not hear one hands off wheel beep. I wonder why people think it is autonomous?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB2g7-HgE_g
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post #170 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by essanbee View Post

Here is some Tesla literature (in YT form) that sure makes it look like an autopilot. Did not hear one hands off wheel beep. I wonder why people think it is autonomous?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB2g7-HgE_g

LOL, hilarious! But that is not going to fly. Cop would probably stand in front of the car and if it makes a move shoot it.
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