Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [NY Times] First Fatal Self Driving Tesla Crash
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[NY Times] First Fatal Self Driving Tesla Crash - Page 20

post #191 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by delboy67 View Post

Any human being is infinitely better at predicting human behavior than any ai, thats just a fact, I dont think he means he has a crystal ball or a magic lamp on his back seat and literally knows what people are about to do. Could computers drive, yes no doubt, could they mingle safely on the road with human drivers, recipe for slamming into trucks if you ask me.

Just look at traction control - it's tried to send me into the curb during a turn a great deal more than its ever been helpful. Glitches out when you hit a small amount of gravel on the road or a slippery patch and then goes nuts, making the vehicle unstable when it was stable (instead of what it's claimed to do). Unfortunately, that's my work truck and since they monitor everything we do (trucks have fully wired up gps units that monitor pretty much everything obd2 will tell, so head office knows if we fire up the vehicle with our seat belts off) we aren't allowed to turn it off in the winter despite it being a liability....

I would sooner use Greyhound exclusively to get around than be in a self-driven car.
JägerWulfe
(19 items)
 
 
Gigadestroyer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-4770K Gigabyte Z87X-OC MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6G Golden Edition G.Skill Triden-X 16GB DDR3-2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate 2TB SATA3 Maxtor 2TB Black LG DVD-RW Cryorig R1 ultimate 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit BenQ VP2210 BenQ VP2210 Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
EVGA SuperNova 1000G2 NZXT Phantom 820 Black Roccat Nyth Steel Series Worgen 
AudioAudioAudio
JDS Labs O2 + ODAC Rev.B AKG K712 Audio Technica ATH-M50X 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Maximus V Formula EVGA GTX 780 Classified Corsair Dominator Platinum 1866MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston 64GB SSDnow 200 CoolerMaster MasterLiquid Pro 240 Windows 7 64 Bit Dell E2213H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 v2 EVGA 1000w G2 Open Bench Table Corsair M95 
Mouse Pad
3' wide battle mat 
  hide details  
Reply
JägerWulfe
(19 items)
 
 
Gigadestroyer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-4770K Gigabyte Z87X-OC MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6G Golden Edition G.Skill Triden-X 16GB DDR3-2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate 2TB SATA3 Maxtor 2TB Black LG DVD-RW Cryorig R1 ultimate 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit BenQ VP2210 BenQ VP2210 Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
EVGA SuperNova 1000G2 NZXT Phantom 820 Black Roccat Nyth Steel Series Worgen 
AudioAudioAudio
JDS Labs O2 + ODAC Rev.B AKG K712 Audio Technica ATH-M50X 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Maximus V Formula EVGA GTX 780 Classified Corsair Dominator Platinum 1866MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston 64GB SSDnow 200 CoolerMaster MasterLiquid Pro 240 Windows 7 64 Bit Dell E2213H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 v2 EVGA 1000w G2 Open Bench Table Corsair M95 
Mouse Pad
3' wide battle mat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #192 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Self driving cars are a neat gimmick, something I'd use to show off to my friends and whatnot, but they will have to pry the steering wheel of any of my cars out of my cold, dead hands if they plan to make cars AI-only in the near future. I don't care how much "safer" they claim to be, driving is one of life's great freedoms and I'll never give up my right to pilot my own vehicle. "Optional" self-driving mode would offer the best of both worlds, allowing me to drive when I wanted to while having the option to sit back and relax, text, sleep, etc when I didn't want to drive...

Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Driving is not a right. I understand the feeling behind the message, I do. Driving just isn't a right.

Call it what you want, it doesn't make a difference to me. I won't be giving up my right/privilege/etc to drive any time soon.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3960X @4.7GHz 1.4V Asus Rampage IV Extreme X79 EVGA GTX 780 Reference 1202/3420MHz Corsair Vengeance 16GB 1600Mhz CL9 (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 120Gb SSD Random laptop HDDs (2x160GB) Noctua NH-U14S 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Windows 10 Pro 64bit BenQ XL2420T 120Hz @ 10% lightboost LG 25UM6-S 2560x1080 Dell IN2020M 1600x900 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
IBM 6580 DisplayWriter, IBM Model F107, Model F... EVGA 1000 G2  Silverstone FT02B-W USB 3.0 Steelseries Rival 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Steelseries QcK Sennheiser HD598 CS Fiio E10K Audio Technica AT2020 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3960X @4.7GHz 1.4V Asus Rampage IV Extreme X79 EVGA GTX 780 Reference 1202/3420MHz Corsair Vengeance 16GB 1600Mhz CL9 (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 120Gb SSD Random laptop HDDs (2x160GB) Noctua NH-U14S 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Windows 10 Pro 64bit BenQ XL2420T 120Hz @ 10% lightboost LG 25UM6-S 2560x1080 Dell IN2020M 1600x900 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
IBM 6580 DisplayWriter, IBM Model F107, Model F... EVGA 1000 G2  Silverstone FT02B-W USB 3.0 Steelseries Rival 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Steelseries QcK Sennheiser HD598 CS Fiio E10K Audio Technica AT2020 
  hide details  
Reply
post #193 of 238
Doesn't matter. Insurance premiums will drive adoption and eventual phase out of human drivers.
post #194 of 238
Big Blue
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K P8P67 DELUXE EVGA GTX 980 FTW G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital WD1002FAEX-00Z3A0 ASUS DRW-24B1ST SWIFTECH H20-320 EDGE HD APOGEE HD WATER BLOCK WIN7 64bit 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
ASUS VE258Q THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER XT 775W APEVIA X JUPITER S TYPE METALLIC BLUE RAZER DEATHADDER 3500dpi 
AudioOther
Creative Soundblaster Z SSD Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB for OS 
  hide details  
Reply
Big Blue
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K P8P67 DELUXE EVGA GTX 980 FTW G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital WD1002FAEX-00Z3A0 ASUS DRW-24B1ST SWIFTECH H20-320 EDGE HD APOGEE HD WATER BLOCK WIN7 64bit 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
ASUS VE258Q THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER XT 775W APEVIA X JUPITER S TYPE METALLIC BLUE RAZER DEATHADDER 3500dpi 
AudioOther
Creative Soundblaster Z SSD Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB for OS 
  hide details  
Reply
post #195 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Doesn't matter. Insurance premiums will drive adoption and eventual phase out of human drivers.

You'd be surprise how low the required insurance is in most states.

No one is forcing you to buy a car that the bank stipulates must have FULL insurance coverage.

Buy a new car with cash, insure it as little as you want.

Buy a used car with cash, insure it as little as you want.

The insurance industry is a scam anyhow. rolleyes.gif
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL @ 1866 9-11-... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL @ 1866 9-11-... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
post #196 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Doesn't matter. Insurance premiums will drive adoption and eventual phase out of human drivers.

It won't need to, statistics will do that. This wasn't even full AI. The google self driving ai as far as I know hasn't been in an accident that was deemed the AI's fault (though this might be old info). All this technology needs is a few years on the road for stats.

There only needs to be two things that happen.

1. Stats that show AI controlled vehicles are not responsible for fatal car accidents over the course of years vs human drivers causing thousands of deaths over the same amount of time.
2. A person in an AI controlled car being killed by someone manually driving where the manual driver was at fault.

Your rights/freedoms end when they infringe on other people's rights. If the AI cars prove to be that much safer, then driving manually would put people's safety at risk unnecessarily. That would be all they need to make manual driving only possible on a track for recreation and illegal on public roadways.
Sab Tower
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 OC Formula HIS IceQ Radeon 7950 Corsair Dominator Platinum 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung Samsung 830 XSPC Raystorm EX360 OpenSUSE 12.2 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
Acer 21 Inch Flat Screen Seasonic x650 NZXT Switch 810 Logitech MX510 
  hide details  
Reply
Sab Tower
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 OC Formula HIS IceQ Radeon 7950 Corsair Dominator Platinum 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung Samsung 830 XSPC Raystorm EX360 OpenSUSE 12.2 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
Acer 21 Inch Flat Screen Seasonic x650 NZXT Switch 810 Logitech MX510 
  hide details  
Reply
post #197 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

It won't need to, statistics will do that. This wasn't even full AI. The google self driving ai as far as I know hasn't been in an accident that was deemed the AI's fault (though this might be old info).

It has caused one accident that I'm aware of - it sideswiped a bus, although at very low speeds.

They have been involved in several other accidents, all the fault of another driver.

That doesn't count the times that humans have stepped in to prevent an accident, although it is very hard to tell if the autonomous system would have avoided the accident had the human not interfered.

Still safer than human drivers.
Main
(21 items)
 
HTPC
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2550k P8P67 Pro Sapphire HD 7950 G.Skill RipJaws X 1600 Cas 9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Corsair Force 120 WD Blue 500GB WD Caviar Green 1TB XSPC RayStorm 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
RX240 MCR 220 EK 7950 Copper Acetal  DDC-1T 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 64-bit Dell U2311H Oculus Rift DK2 Ducky Shine 3 MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX 750W CoolerMaster CM690 II G500 Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 
Audio
Asus Xonar DX 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
A10-6800K Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI G Skill 1600 CAS9 Kingston SSD Now 60GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Caviar Blue 1TB LG Slim Blu-Ray player Silverstone NT06-PRO  Widows 7 Home Premium 
PowerCase
Silverstone Sfx Series ST45SF 450W Silverstone SG05 
  hide details  
Reply
Main
(21 items)
 
HTPC
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2550k P8P67 Pro Sapphire HD 7950 G.Skill RipJaws X 1600 Cas 9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Corsair Force 120 WD Blue 500GB WD Caviar Green 1TB XSPC RayStorm 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
RX240 MCR 220 EK 7950 Copper Acetal  DDC-1T 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 64-bit Dell U2311H Oculus Rift DK2 Ducky Shine 3 MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX 750W CoolerMaster CM690 II G500 Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 
Audio
Asus Xonar DX 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
A10-6800K Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI G Skill 1600 CAS9 Kingston SSD Now 60GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Caviar Blue 1TB LG Slim Blu-Ray player Silverstone NT06-PRO  Widows 7 Home Premium 
PowerCase
Silverstone Sfx Series ST45SF 450W Silverstone SG05 
  hide details  
Reply
post #198 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post

Autonomous cars will pay off much more in the long term than the short term. The more there are, the safer they are. Autonomous cars don't need to "predict" reckless drivers if there are none.

It is like child immunization / vaccines. After you reach a critical % of them accepting its working, it actually indirectly protects the idiot members of the pack that deny it does.

Soon™ we will have autonomous cars that make decisions & communicate them to the rest of the smart cars around them to maximize safety & streamline transportation in ways that are not possible today. Most current systems are in their infancy, more into the glorified cruise control range than autonomous driving, and such is the Tesla implementation.

Regardless of the system tho, accidents will happen, as certain mistakes are just impossible to correct due to laws of physics: if there is not enough traction to turn fast enough, or enough room to brake etc, a computer cannot make up for it, much like the best driver could not. Its not a bug, its a "feature" of living into a real world, despite the deniers that live in their own lil bubble.
FooBox
(20 items)
 
 
Camera Gear
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz Dell C610 Quadro K4200 4GB 32GB PC-2133 DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial M550 256GB Dell Windows 7 Professional Dell U2412M 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2412M Dell KB-212-B Dell 850W 80+ Gold T5810 
Mouse
Logitech G700 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
Canon EOS 6D  EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM  EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM 
GraphicsOptical DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
EF 35mm f/2 IS USM Manfrotto 190XPROB Tripod Manfrotto 685B NeoTec Monopod Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head 
Optical DriveCase
Manfrotto 496 Ball Head Lowepro Mini Trekker AW 
  hide details  
Reply
FooBox
(20 items)
 
 
Camera Gear
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz Dell C610 Quadro K4200 4GB 32GB PC-2133 DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial M550 256GB Dell Windows 7 Professional Dell U2412M 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2412M Dell KB-212-B Dell 850W 80+ Gold T5810 
Mouse
Logitech G700 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
Canon EOS 6D  EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM  EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM 
GraphicsOptical DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
EF 35mm f/2 IS USM Manfrotto 190XPROB Tripod Manfrotto 685B NeoTec Monopod Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head 
Optical DriveCase
Manfrotto 496 Ball Head Lowepro Mini Trekker AW 
  hide details  
Reply
post #199 of 238
I don't think we will ever see fully autonomous cars outside of highway settings simply because of pedestrians and their unpredictable movement and nature. I don't see how a computer can see a person walking on the sidewalk perpendicular to the road and adjust its speed because they "may" enter the roadway. It would have to ignore them because then it would slow down for every pedestrian it sees.

Because while people are horrible drivers...they have the ability to observe an action that may be far outside of the car's optical FOV and determine that it 'may' result in a situation that would prove dangerous and adjust the speed accordingly.

Also, what about those stupid people who stand in the crosswalk, but don't actually cross the street? Are you telling me my car is going to stop for them every time? Ugh.

The infrastructure required for a fully autonomous system is many many many years away. You're talking about a Skynet for cars. Roadwork, Detours, Speedlimits, Directions...everything needs to be hosted on a server and reported to cars with live updates.
post #200 of 238
???
The FOV of cars can be full 360 at all times...ours (human) is far more limited, due to us being distracted, current cars having blind spots that would not affect a system of external cameras/sensors but do affect a single human driver etc.

And again, systems are already tested that will keep all cars in an area "talking / informing" each other about what is "seen" collectively, ontop of speed & destination etc of all vehicles that will inform their behavior, routing etc - something like a super-automated-Waze navigation.

I agree that the system is not "there" yet, but it is exactly because self-driving cars are created to operate within the regulations of the existing infrastructure, not the other way around, although future infrastructure might adapt to aid the future norms that might take self-driving cars as the standard or at least not a niche that affects as tiny % of cases.

For highway settings we don't have to speculate: most systems "are there/here" can can do it within reason. It is more of a law / liability issue for cases like the one in the OP, than technology issue, and the reason Tesla "beated" the rest to the punch is because they chose to ignore or be more adventurous marketing that capability, not because their technology was that much more advanced/mature.

Will any of the above "shield" pedestrians or eclipse accidents? No. Too many unpredictable variants in play.
But it will eventually lead to diminishing stupid accidents and stress due to erratic driving of every @hole out there.
Edited by pcfoo - 7/11/16 at 11:18am
FooBox
(20 items)
 
 
Camera Gear
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz Dell C610 Quadro K4200 4GB 32GB PC-2133 DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial M550 256GB Dell Windows 7 Professional Dell U2412M 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2412M Dell KB-212-B Dell 850W 80+ Gold T5810 
Mouse
Logitech G700 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
Canon EOS 6D  EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM  EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM 
GraphicsOptical DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
EF 35mm f/2 IS USM Manfrotto 190XPROB Tripod Manfrotto 685B NeoTec Monopod Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head 
Optical DriveCase
Manfrotto 496 Ball Head Lowepro Mini Trekker AW 
  hide details  
Reply
FooBox
(20 items)
 
 
Camera Gear
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz Dell C610 Quadro K4200 4GB 32GB PC-2133 DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial M550 256GB Dell Windows 7 Professional Dell U2412M 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2412M Dell KB-212-B Dell 850W 80+ Gold T5810 
Mouse
Logitech G700 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
Canon EOS 6D  EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM  EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM 
GraphicsOptical DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
EF 35mm f/2 IS USM Manfrotto 190XPROB Tripod Manfrotto 685B NeoTec Monopod Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head 
Optical DriveCase
Manfrotto 496 Ball Head Lowepro Mini Trekker AW 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [NY Times] First Fatal Self Driving Tesla Crash