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[DSoG]Report: Total War: WARHAMMER runs 27% slower in DX12 on NVIDIA’s hardware - Page 11

post #101 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noufel View Post

cause they are sold out every where even with their huge stock at launch good work AMD thumb.gif
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709%20601203818
admit it the 480 launch was a good one tongue.gif

How about you lot admit since 1080 & 1070 are out of stock as well, that either

  • the 25X 1080 stock claim isn't really true
  • 1080/1070 launch are just as well if not better given Nvidia is earning as much as 4-6X more margin per chip


But when it is Nvidia card is out of stock everywhere the launch is a castrophic fail because they deliberately didn't provide enough stock rolleyes.gif, whereas when AMD card is out of stock everywhere the launch is a great sucess wink.gif #RedLogic

Yea, yields and shipments are totally the same. That's why microcenter's 480 shipments number in the hundreds while they get a dozen pascal cards.
post #102 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaSceptre View Post

A 2016 card that has a MRSP of $199.. If AMD targeted the 970's market, at $330 with customs going over $400 + then you might have a point.. Do you even believe the stuff you say?rolleyes.gif
So it's getting "destroyed" now is it? lachen.gif

You also somehow know the 970 overclocks "much better"? Maxwell's overclocking has always been overrated, maybe excluding the 980Ti. After factoring boost in it really doesn't overclock as well as people think.

You're nothing more than a troll at this point, carry on recommending the 970 though.

I just feel sorry for whoever listens to you. Especially since DX12 titles are going to become the norm, and contrary to all the green loyals around here, DX12 is real, and all the biggest titles yet to release this year are all using it. Next year will also probably see every tripple-A adopt it.

What made maxwell overclocking good is that it is by far the most usable compared to any other card/architecture.

What this means is overclocks did not ramp up power and heat until past 1500mhz which allowed manufacturers to clock their cards 25% higher than stock clocks. It's why everyone got to 1400mhz. I don't think you will find any review for any other architecture where factory overclocked models were 25% faster than standards reference models. And this wasn't just frequency, this was real world performance.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_XtremeGaming/23.html

Even the fastest 280x models had lower factory overclocks compared to the lame clocked 7970. And this is because GCN needs a volt mod to really reach maxwell levels of overclocking and even then, there was alot of variance. Some people struggled to get much beyond 1100mhz and reaching 1200 required big bumps of voltages to reach consistently. No manufacture wants to deal with this long term.

AMD vendors knew this and it's why you never saw crazily high clocked GCN cards vs stock. 50-100% more power for a 5-10% higher overclock just isn't worth it.

AMD cards can overclock decently if you are willing to do it manually, but GCN stability is questionable because the power and heat become overwhelming very quickly. Although claims were exaggerated to some extent, past 1200, they were not. You basically need water cooling and have to be willing to put up with another 100-150 watts of power consumption, perhaps more.

It's why the highest hawaii overclock, even with a card like the lightning are limited to 1200mhz on air. After that you need water for sure. Maxwell could stay on air because it didn't need volts to overclock which could be said as a weakness to some but not for 99% of the market. Having the ability to overclock 35+ on air with no volts rather than the typical 15-20% gave maxwell its reputation as a good overclocker.

Maxwell was as big of an improvement as you can get from strictly an architecture without a node change. It's why AMD is struggling even with finfet to beat it in regards to performance per watt, which even for enthusiasts, translates for the entire line.
post #103 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

What made maxwell overclocking good is that it is by far the most usable compared to any other card/architecture.

What this means is overclocks did not ramp up power and heat until past 1500mhz which allowed manufacturers to clock their cards 25% higher than stock clocks. It's why everyone got to 1400mhz. I don't think you will find any review for any other architecture where factory overclocked models were 25% faster than standards reference models. And this wasn't just frequency, this was real world performance.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_XtremeGaming/23.html

Even the fastest 280x models had lower factory overclocks compared to the lame clocked 7970. And this is because GCN needs a volt mod to really reach maxwell levels of overclocking and even then, there was alot of variance. Some people struggled to get much beyond 1100mhz and reaching 1200 required big bumps of voltages to reach consistently. No manufacture wants to deal with this long term.

AMD vendors knew this and it's why you never saw crazily high clocked GCN cards vs stock. 50-100% more power for a 5-10% higher overclock just isn't worth it.

AMD cards can overclock decently if you are willing to do it manually, but GCN stability is questionable because the power and heat become overwhelming very quickly. Although claims were exaggerated to some extent, past 1200, they were not. You basically need water cooling and have to be willing to put up with another 100-150 watts of power consumption, perhaps more.

It's why the highest hawaii overclock, even with a card like the lightning are limited to 1200mhz on air. After that you need water for sure. Maxwell could stay on air because it didn't need volts to overclock which could be said as a weakness to some but not for 99% of the market. Having the ability to overclock 35+ on air with no volts rather than the typical 15-20% gave maxwell its reputation as a good overclocker.

Maxwell was as big of an improvement as you can get from strictly an architecture without a node change. It's why AMD is struggling even with finfet to beat it in regards to performance per watt, which even for enthusiasts, translates for the entire line.
And this is why nvidia is so far ahead of AMD in performance per watt. Nvidia was able to take maxwell, and spend most of the improvements from 16nm on higher clock rates and lower TDPs. Maxwell was also originally supposed to be 20nm, so moving it to 16nm was pretty easy.

Meanwhile, AMD never had a maxwell style refresh, so they were stuck with GCN. Their tweaks produce some impressive perf/W improvements from GCN 1 with 14nm tech, but it just isnt enough considering the gap between GCN and maxwell. They really need a GCN redesign with the 14nm tech in mind, but they dont have the money/time to do that.
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post #104 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by alawadhi3000 View Post


Don't care about any of that, I don't why I have to repeat myself to you just to get you to understand, read by me again.

I originally said you took his words out of context, you then replied with:
Quote:
Out of context? LOL, just go back and read what he wrote in the last few posts of his.

But now you don't care..
Quote:
Originally Posted by alawadhi3000 View Post

And no, Hawaii can't clock 1200+ on average, if you got a good sample doesn't mean everybody else will, From what I've seen the average is around 1150MHz, up from a stock of 1050MHz, not even 10% overclock. redface.gif

My Titan X's can go up to 1530MHz-1550MHz, yet when I compare them to other cards I use an average clock of ~1475MHz because most cannot achieve this clock.

I never said that was the average.. I have no idea what the average is. I merely said my card in particular would disprove your "AMD pre-overclocks the crap out of their chips".

Hawaii stock is also 1000MHz, not 1050. A 390X is just a factory overclocked 290X with 8GB's of memory. But i guess we'll forget that because it doesn't suit your argument. rolleyes.gif

As i said earlier, overclocking on Nvidia is deceptive because of boost..

This is more or less the usual 970. - http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_970_gaming_review,26.html

Out of the box it boosts to 1279 MHz, some may boost higher than that too, including cards like the 980Ti. When overclocked to 1500 that gives a 14% overclock.. Not to mention you can't just compare AMD and Nvidia 1:1, a 15% overclock won't give 15% more performance..

So while i would never say AMD's recent cards, Hawaii - present overclock as good as Maxwell, it's not really night and day.. Out of the AMD and Nvidia cards I've owned the AMD ones have also always scaled better with overclocks. Even the 480 does, a 10% overclock on it is netting 10% more performance. The same isn't true for Maxwell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alawadhi3000 View Post

BTW, the 390X is already around 300W, if AMD could've clock it higher, they would've done it already. thumb.gif
Still applies to newer games, GM200 GPUs are held back by the 250W TDP even at stock clocks, actually newer games might make it worse.

You seem very obsessed about TDP and power consumption for someone who dropped a grand on a 250W GPU @ stock.. Overclocked 980Ti's also go over 300W, so it's green, but not that type of green. It's not like Nvidia's enthusiast hardware only needs a laptop power brick while AMD needs a power station.. No argument from me about who gives the other a beat-down in perf/watt, however.

@tajoh111

Good post. thumb.gif Completely agree about the temps, i can't go past 1130 in summer where i live because of that.

Maxwell as an architecture was very impressive, still is. It just doesn't overclock by 30+% like many seem to imply.
Edited by GorillaSceptre - 7/3/16 at 7:43pm
post #105 of 360
80% of these news threads should just be labeled "Nvidia VS AMD pissing match". Why we are we arguing over a 970gtx and a RX 480? I have no clue but every one of these threads are getting labeled and smeared into brand vs brand.

When i first saw the thread my first thought was "Nvidia performance in DX12 based in one specific game" One might think based on title it would have all Nvidia Dx12 GPU's being tested. Being objective i can see that is misleading, as it should have included "Maxwell only". That said Maxwell is sold as DX12 so half of it is valid i think. It should have included Pascal to cover all DX12 bases. It doesn't imply to me all Dx12 performance on Nvidia as it specifies a single game with a benchmark. It does also leave you wondering what the rival brand offering scores to compare also. The only valid points i think to consider is Maxwell is dx12, and also a large portion of the active hardware in use. It is still in a small bubble though as in one game tested and unless you really love this game series, perhaps it doesn't mean much just yet.
post #106 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

has anyone actually seen a $199 480 anywhere on this planet ? lachen.gif

Three on Newegg alone.

And hey, at least you can find $199 RX 480s. The absolute cheapest 1080 I could find was the $609 EVGA one, have yet to see a single $599 1080 from anybody.
post #107 of 360
Another $199 480.
post #108 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Three on Newegg alone.

And hey, at least you can find $199 RX 480s. The absolute cheapest 1080 I could find was the $609 EVGA one, have yet to see a single $599 1080 from anybody.

They're all out of stock.
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post #109 of 360
I simply showed that $199 RX 480 do exist on this planet. smile.gif

Also see post above yours.
post #110 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I simply showed that $199 RX 480 do exist on this planet. smile.gif

Also see post above yours.

Yea, they're priced at $199 no doubt. Just, not available.

I still don't believe that Microcenter's exist. Tales for school children and fishermen. Hey, stop by the city of Atlantis on your way to shop at Microcenter! tongue.gif
     
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