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[DSoG]Report: Total War: WARHAMMER runs 27% slower in DX12 on NVIDIA’s hardware - Page 4

post #31 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

You are saying RX 480 sits between 390 and 390X which is not true. It sits below 390. Also what games in DX12 390X matches GTX 980 Ti? I thought AoTS was the best example for AMD and it does not match it there. Its nice RX480 improving pipeline stalls in older DX and has been shown in some games vs 390 but are we not moving to DX12 where all these small improvements with GCN 4th gen are nullified?


Looks like it sits between an R9 390 and 390x here.

And of course as the resolution rises beyond 1080p the RX 480 loses steam (most likely due to the single threaded performance boost no longer being enough to offset the lower DX11 overhead on the R9 390 and 390x).



As for the nVIDIA GPUs... they are not rendering Ashes of the Singularity properly (even Pascal btw). They are rendering less work. The snow effects are not being rendered.

As for the R9 390x matching the GTX 980 Ti under Ashes of the Singularity....
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review,15.html

And under Hitman...
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_1070_review,14.html

Looks to me like it does.
Edited by Mahigan - 7/2/16 at 3:00pm
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post #32 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post


Looks like it sits between an R9 390 and 390x here.

And of course as the resolution rises beyond 1080p the RX 480 loses steam (most likely due to the single threaded performance boost no longer being enough to offset the lower DX11 overhead on the R9 390 and 390x).



As for the nVIDIA GPUs... they are not rendering Ashes of the Singularity properly (even Pascal btw). They are rendering less work. The snow effects are not being rendered.

As for the R9 390x matching the GTX 980 Ti under Ashes of the Singularity....
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review,15.html

Looks to me like it does.

Every reviews shows something different with AoTS. Not sure what is going on. Yeah at 1080p 480 DX11 improvements will give the edge over 390. I just never bother to look at 1080p anymore.
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post #33 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Every reviews shows something different with AoTS. Not sure what is going on. Yeah at 1080p 480 DX11 improvements will give the edge over 390. I just never bother to look at 1080p anymore.

Well it is a 1080p GPU aimed at budget buyers. An overwhelming number of PC Gamers are still on 1080p as well. the RX 480 is not a high end GPU... it is purely a mainstream GPU. A Tonga replacement. For what it is... it is not half bad at all.
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post #34 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Every reviews shows something different with AoTS. Not sure what is going on. Yeah at 1080p 480 DX11 improvements will give the edge over 390. I just never bother to look at 1080p anymore.
Except, there are no such improvements in Dx11. From 14% dependence at the same performance level to 8%. Underwhelming, to say the least.


Edited by mtcn77 - 7/2/16 at 3:12pm
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post #35 of 360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

Well considering that a stock clocked RX 480 sits between a R9 390 and R9 390x and that a R9 390x is often either beating or matching a GTX 980 Ti under DX12 titles then it is not a stretch to imagine a RX 480 coming mighty close to a GTX 980 Ti under DX 12 titles.

As for Total War - Warhammer... it does make use of Asynchronous Compute + Graphics last I heard. That would likely explain the performance loss attributed to the GTX 980 Ti due to latency being introduced into the execution pipeline.

I would bet that a GTX 1070/1080 would either get similar performance going from DX11 to DX12 or a slight bump (ever so slight). This is mostly due to the reduction in latencies attributed to flushing an SM (when moving from one compute task to another a.k.a finer grained preemption) as well as the capability to run the Graphics and Compute tasks in parallel but in two separate GPCs (which can allow for a performance boost when very minute degrees of Async compute + graphics are introduced into the execution pipeline due to the fact that you only have so many GPCs being available at any given time). So while the GTX 1070 and 1080 do not support Asynchronous Compute + Graphics they do have some slight tweaks in order to alleviate the performance losses we witnessed with Maxwell.

What will determine the performance boost for the RX 480 (relative to past GCN parts) is the degree by which the increased instruction buffers (per CU) help to boost single threaded performance. If the RX 480 is already obtaining a significant single threaded boost under DX11 then moving to DX12 will not result in the same performance boost we have witnessed in prior GCN GPUs. Asynchronous compute+graphics-wise though... I would still expect a boost in terms of performance for the RX 480... perhaps even moreso than with prior GCN GPUs due to the caching improvements in the Polaris architecture.

As for the larger instruction buffers... basically Polaris can buffer up 20 or 22 DWORD worth of instructions vs 16 for prior GCN GPUs. This means that the RX 480 is going to be making less requests to the CPU for work and that leads to there being less GPU stalls if the CPU is busy with some other work when the GPU is ready to receive new work. This translates into a boost in performance in single threaded scenarios (DX9/10/11 scenarios).

So I do not expect Pascal to suffer much from the use of dX12 and Asynchronous compute+graphics but Maxwell and Kepler GPUs are basically heading towards being obsolete very fast (as I had expected).
still of the gpu compute tasks are done by batches the RX 480 should be doing slighly worse/the same as a R9 390(OC) no? Or the GPC with the HWS will change the way Compute tasks are waiting in case HWS dont distribuite the work?also th. Segmentation for Audio on CU is also usable for Compute?

the bottleneck of int8 wouldnt be llimiting the games in some way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

You are saying RX 480 sits between 390 and 390X which is not true. It sits below 390. Also what games in DX12 390X matches GTX 980 Ti? I thought AoTS was the best example for AMD and it does not match it there. Its nice RX480 improving pipeline stalls in older DX and has been shown in some games vs 390 but are we not moving to DX12 where all these small improvements with GCN 4th gen are nullified?
well at 1080 it is close to 390x but higher than 1080 the Bandwidth is limited given the 390/290 Bandwidth was 60GB/s+higher with just 256SP more
Edited by PontiacGTX - 7/2/16 at 3:25pm
  
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post #36 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

still of the gpu compute tasks are done by batches the RX 480 should be doing slighly worse/the same as a R9 390(OC) no? Or the GPC with the HWS will change the way Compute tasks are stalling?also th. Segmentation for Audio on CU is also usable for Compute?

the bottleneck of int8 wouldnt be llimiting the games in some way?
well at 1080 it is close to 390x but higher than 1080 the Bandwidth is limited given the 390/290 Bandwidth was 60GB/s+higher with just 256SP more

Well the thing with texture filtering is that it is memory bandwidth intensive. Unlike texture fetching and mapping (which can make use of color compression algorithms) texture filtering performance is in part bottlenecked by the available memory bandwidth. In the case of the RX 480... we are looking at the same 256GB/s that the R9 380x enjoys. In other words... we are most likely going to run into a wall in terms of int8 performance (while heavier texture filtering algorithms will see a slight boost).

I believe that this explains the int8 performance on the RX 480 in the Tech Report review.

This also means that if one were to reduce anisotropic filtering down to 8x (from x16) they might see a large performance boost if this theory turns out to be true.
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post #37 of 360
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Originally Posted by NuclearPeace View Post

THere's more to DX12 than just the 3D rendering parts. Plus, there's very little incentive to develop for Vulkan when 99% of PC gamer are using Windows anyway.

Except you know... all of the gamers that are not using Windows 10? 

Just wait until DX13 comes along and you need Windows 12 or something to use it. 

That wouldn't be the case with Vulkan as it's OS independent. 

Going forward it would make more sense for game developers to primarily target Vulkan. 

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post #38 of 360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

Well the thing with texture filtering is that it is memory bandwidth intensive. Unlike texture fetching and mapping (which can make use of color compression algorithms) texture filtering performance is in part bottlenecked by the available memory bandwidth. In the case of the RX 480... we are looking at the same 256GB/s that the R9 380x enjoys. In other words... we are most likely going to run into a wall in terms of int8 performance (while heavier texture filtering algorithms will see a slight boost).

I believe that this explains the int8 performance on the RX 480 in the Tech Report review.

This also means that if one were to reduce anisotropic filtering down to 8x (from x16) they might see a large performance boost if this theory turns out to be true.
then whichever cards is a RX 485 and if it had 2304SP+ it has to get at least 288-320GB/s+ would it be fine with just 32 ROPs ?because also ROPs seem limiting this card

And probably these bottleneck have to be overcome by devs to fully get the performance of 480
  
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post #39 of 360
Ashes , warhammer , hitman, forza beta and quantum break all running really well on amd - my fury x is close to the 1080 (within 20%) in these titles.

Will be interesting to see how the next round of DX 12 titles will go. Ones I am aware of are the xbox dual release titles gears 4 and forza horizon 3 also new deus ex
post #40 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkzilla View Post

Ashes , warhammer , hitman, forza beta and quantum break all running really well on amd - my fury x is close to the 1080 (within 20%) in these titles.

Will be interesting to see how the next round of DX 12 titles will go. Ones I am aware of are the xbox dual release titles gears 4 and forza horizon 3 also new deus ex
meh not really, in all these games 980Ti is trading blows with Fury X especially with latest nvidia drivers. i think you just checked initial benchmarks and didn't see any updated ones with new nvidia drivers. if warhammer runs much slower in dx12 on nvidia gpus that sounds like game or driver bug, not issue with hardware. usually nvidia has identical or very close performance in dx11 and dx12, so what is happening in warhammer is definitely abnormal and exception rather than a rule.

also funny you say quantum break runs rally well... as it's one of the worst optimized and technically atrocious PC releases of all time, independently of what GPU you are using.
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