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I have PCI-E 75w limit question... - Page 3

post #21 of 29
Yeah that 960 was sick. I think the focus of AMD should rather be on reducing the power hungriness of the Polaris chips overall. Sure keeping specs is important but 75W or 80W motherboards don't care. Of course personally I would prefer 1/3 2/3 split instead of 1/2 1/2 between mobo and PCIe power.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Yeah that 960 was sick. I think the focus of AMD should rather be on reducing the power hungriness of the Polaris chips overall. Sure keeping specs is important but 75W or 80W motherboards don't care. Of course personally I would prefer 1/3 2/3 split instead of 1/2 1/2 between mobo and PCIe power.

I think that's what the 470 is for, as well as P11. Those will really showcase Polaris' efficiency gains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

1100/2000 (.915/.915) ~82.5W Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/12891554

To answer your first question, I was getting 10975 +/-10 consistently at 1100/2000.

I was able to drop 35W+ off the GPU and only lose 1.5K in FS from my lowest voltage on stock clocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

Stock Clock (Except Memory) Lowest Voltage. GPU-Z Load 119.5W Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/12866814

Edited by BulletBait - 7/3/16 at 9:43pm
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post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eroticus View Post

This power is still going through the motherboard.

There is even Two and Four way servers with Tons of slots.

Neither point has anything to do with my points.

The board traces aren't likely to be the point of failure. Workstation/server board with tons of PCI-E slots don't power them all from an ATX 24-pin connector and parts used in these systems are generally held to tighter tolerances than consumer parts.

A consumer board with no supplemental PCI-E power could quite easily be damaged by long periods of significantly out of spec current demands from PCI-E cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

But even that isn't a huge deal because these wires can take quite a bit more current safely than they're rated for.

I've never see PSU wires fail, but I have certainly seen the connectors themselves fail.

In an ideal world the pin mating is always perfect and the connectors would never wear out, but this is not the case in the real world. A less than perfect connection can cause the actual contacts themselves to get hot enough to cause problems...and at well below 6A of current.

Example:

87197bb3_IMAG0993.jpeg

That was with a new PSU (and new cables), on a relatively new board, with no signs of power issues until hours prior to the system refusing to POST. The wires themselves were fine (I cut the ends off and tested them, they can carry a good 8A each before getting noticeably warmer than ambient, and I ended up reusing them).

The ~5A per connector I was pulling was enough to melt the plastic around the connector and fuse it to the board. That layer of plastic also worsened any remaining connection, causing more heating, which essentially killed the board. Two pins are now completely coated with a thin layer of burnt plastic and one managed to partially desolder itself. The PCB looks mostly undamaged and if I replace the pins, I might be able to salvage something, but I have yet to try.
Edited by Blameless - 7/4/16 at 6:15am
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post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I've never see PSU wires fail, but I have certainly seen the connectors themselves fail.

In an ideal world the pin mating is always perfect and the connectors would never wear out, but this is not the case in the real world. A less than perfect connection can cause the actual contacts themselves to get hot enough to cause problems...and at well below 6A of current.

...

doh.gif Right, hot plastic is bad.

In that case, what can the plastic handle before failing? Or do you really need to make sure it's a proper connection to avoid issues?
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post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I've never see PSU wires fail, but I have certainly seen the connectors themselves fail.

In an ideal world the pin mating is always perfect and the connectors would never wear out, but this is not the case in the real world. A less than perfect connection can cause the actual contacts themselves to get hot enough to cause problems...and at well below 6A of current.

...

doh.gif Right, hot plastic is bad.

In that case, what can the plastic handle before failing? Or do you really need to make sure it's a proper connection to avoid issues?

The connectors were probably arcing. Ez firez
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post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eroticus View Post

This one is pretty popular - 960 strix had it a little bit worse...


but yea, RX480 joined to the party...

You have to look at the average lines! The 960 is pulling well under 60W average in your image while the 480 is pulling about 80W average.
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post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

In that case, what can the plastic handle before failing? Or do you really need to make sure it's a proper connection to avoid issues?

The plastic used on most of these connectors can get pretty hot before it melts, but this is still way beyond the point that is indicative of a connection issue, an excessive current issue, or simply a location that is too hot.

I'd recommend inspecting all connectors, making sure they are seated firmly, and then measuring the temperature of the area during stress testing. More than ~10C above ambient conditions (local board temp) is probably sign of excessive current draw or poor contact and more than 60C is bad news no matter ambient.
Edited by Blameless - 7/6/16 at 10:16am
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post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

The ~5A per connector I was pulling was enough to melt the plastic around the connector and fuse it to the board. That layer of plastic also worsened any remaining connection, causing more heating, which essentially killed the board. Two pins are now completely coated with a thin layer of burnt plastic and one managed to partially desolder itself. The PCB looks mostly undamaged and if I replace the pins, I might be able to salvage something, but I have yet to try.

In theory you could probably replace the connector or solder in the female side of an 8 pin extension lead. Further issues would then be easy to repair. thumb.gif
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post #29 of 29
75 watts is a lot of power to get through the motherboard traces, for one. Then also the card edge slot.

That's why graphics cards have the wired connections for their power. There's no real point in pulling any power from the motherboard other than looking at reference voltages for signals.

Also consider the VRM section of a motherboard up by the ATX12v connector. There ain't any components up there because all of the copper has to be used to get the 12v to the VRMs and then get the much lower voltage HUGE amperage power to the CPU. Those traces are massive and short as heck. The CPU probably uses A LOT of pins for power too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eroticus View Post

@Dieselbird ? 250w CPU is fine trough motherboard, but over 75w GPU going to kill it, + most motherboards has anti surge protection.
I think 75w limit that was ony in the first PCI-E gen, later they upgraded it with PCI 2.1.

+


I said that that the space above the CPU socket is dedicated to heavy traces and that you don't see anything other than chokes caps and power mosfets up there. The PCI-e area has tons of traces for data and there is less room for huge power traces, thus they design the rest of the pci-e power around that limitation and the limitations of the card edge connector
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