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[Various] Pascal Titan could be 50% faster than the GeForce GTX 1080 - Rumoured to launch in August - Page 75  

post #741 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Patekar View Post

Then explain the 680 GTX relative to the 780 GTX and why they could justify selling the first Titan.
Then compare the release date of the 780 TI with the R9 290
Then compare the release date of the 980 TI with the Fury line.

Decisions aren't made on a whim nor do they just follow a pattern. Its a dance, like a nice tango, with AMD.

Your argument is based off "release date's" now? My post was to explain to you that a 1080Ti will indeed release. When it comes out is directly up to Nvidia. Either way that besides the point. Your original point was that it wouldn't release because of "lack of competition", "hurting 1080 sells" and the fact that a 680Ti didn't exist. The last point is bogus as I explained in my last post. The 1080Ti will be released. When may or may not be effected by what Amd does but I doubt it. Nvidia has taken full control over the high-end gpu market. I don't think they really care what Amd does from this point on.
 
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post #742 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

I seriously doubt AMD means anything to Nvidia this round, they are competing with their old linup, not AMD, for at least the rest of this year.

It is hard to tango when your partner isn't on the dance floor. tongue.gif

If they have no competition (and its looking like that) then they'll do like intel in the desktop space. What's intel doing? Very small performance increases, stagnant feature set (4 cores, 8 threads). There die size keeps shrinking, prices stay static, profits increase with each generation.

With no competition nVidia will concentrate on their Tesla line where they compete with the Xeon Phi. No need to undercut their current top seller in the gaming market.. That means no 1080 TI, only a Titan P. Then in about a year they'll release big Pascal as an 1180 GTX. The new "generation" .. same trick they pulled with the 780 GTX.

We want AMD to compete. If zen is competitive we may yet see an 8 core processor for 350$. If Vega is competitive we may see low prices on a 1080 TI (500-600$). Without competition we get monopolies that concentrate on maximizing profits instead of innovating. We get a Titan line from nVidia, and an "extreme edition" line from intel..

It always amazes me how people fail to understand this simple fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

I don't think they really care what Amd does from this point on.

They did in the past. If this generation AMD chooses not to compete, then forget about a 1080 TI. That's the point I'm making. We need strong competition to spur innovation and raise the performance / price ratio of all offerings.
Edited by Lee Patekar - 7/13/16 at 11:59am
post #743 of 956
It boggles my mind that people are so insistent that 1080 Ti will be a thing regardless of competition. AMD has nothing to compete with 1080 right now, and if Vega only ends up around 1080 level, that's still not much competition. So if this were to happen, why exactly would nVidia need to bring out a 1080 Ti? Because 980 Ti and Titan X owners need something to upgrade to? Well the 1080 will always be around, and if you want more of an upgrade, feel free to step right up to the $1300+ Titan P. No 1080 Ti needed. Or you could always go and buy Vega if you wanted to save a few bucks (yeah like that's gonna happen *snort*).
post #744 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

It boggles my mind that people are so insistent that 1080 Ti will be a thing regardless of competition. AMD has nothing to compete with 1080 right now, and if Vega only ends up around 1080 level, that's still not much competition. So if this were to happen, why exactly would nVidia need to bring out a 1080 Ti? Because 980 Ti and Titan X owners need something to upgrade to? Well the 1080 will always be around, and if you want more of an upgrade, feel free to step right up to the $1300+ Titan P. No 1080 Ti needed.

 

You're forgetting Jen-Hsun's long and storied tradition of altruism and concern for the consumer!

 

....

 

I'll see myself out. 

 

Seriously though, neither company has any incentive to compete against itself and Nvidia hasn't reached its market-share levels through playing the nice guy. 980 Ti is technically supplanted by the 1080, and if that's not enough of an increase you can buy a Titan. I can't stress enough too that even with the likely increased price of the Titan the increased price of the *80 has made it seem 'reasonable' by comparison if you're the sort that was already inclined to consider a Titan.

     
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post #745 of 956
I still think there has to be either a 2-nd smaller cheaper Titan or a 1080Ti


both to give more options/incentive to 980Ti owners to upgrade as well as release a direct rival to Vega
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post #746 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

You're forgetting Jen-Hsun's long and storied tradition of altruism and concern for the consumer!

....

I'll see myself out. 

Seriously though, neither company has any incentive to compete against itself and Nvidia hasn't reached its market-share levels through playing the nice guy. 980 Ti is technically supplanted by the 1080, and if that's not enough of an increase you can buy a Titan. I can't stress enough too that even with the likely increased price of the Titan the increased price of the *80 has made it seem 'reasonable' by comparison if you're the sort that was already inclined to consider a Titan.

My only argument with that is Nvidia has created a monster with the Ti brand moving to the 80 series. Titan has and always will be a limited luxury piece with very poor price-performance ratio. 1080 currently doesn't offer enough of a performance increase to get most 980Ti owners to upgrade. Titan will but again the price will likely be ridiculous and only attract a limited amount of 980Ti owners. The Ti in the last 2 generations 780Ti/980Ti has been the best Nvidia bargain if you will for price/performance. I just can't see Nvidia taking that option away. A option that has made them a lot of money. Again 3 options at the Top will yield much better revenue for the company. 1080= high end, 1080Ti= Ultra-High end, Titan = Luxury. Again not seeing anything in the works for a MSI Lightning 1080 tells me without a doubt the 1080Ti is coming.
 
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post #747 of 956
The point being that in the absence of a 1080 Ti, if you wanted more performance than a 1080, you'd have to buy a Titan. The only other option is to not upgrade and keep waiting.

This is of course assuming that Vega will only be around 1080 level, which is why more than one person has said what AMD does matters.
post #748 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

1080 currently doesn't offer enough of a performance increase to get most 980Ti owners to upgrade.

Without AMD 980 TI owners will need to wait for the 1180 GTX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

The Ti in the last 2 generations 780Ti/980Ti has been the best Nvidia bargain if you will for price/performance.

That's because the 780 TI was direct competition to AMD's R9 290 and the 980 TI was direct competition to AMD's Fury lineup. Why you refuse to accept this is beyond me.
post #749 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

The point being that in the absence of a 1080 Ti, if you wanted more performance than a 1080, you'd have to buy a Titan. The only other option is to not upgrade and keep waiting.

This is of course assuming that Vega will only be around 1080 level, which is why more than one person has said what AMD does matters.

I agree that if Vega can only compete with the 1080, Titan P will be the only choice available as an upgrade path for 980Ti owners unless they want to wait for Volta. Why waste chips on a 1080ti, when you can get so much more from the chips selling them as Titans?
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post #750 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post


I agree that if Vega can only compete with the 1080, Titan P will be the only choice available as an upgrade path for 980Ti owners unless they want to wait for Volta. Why waste chips on a 1080ti, when you can get so much more from the chips selling them as Titans?

 

Yep, and judging by the 1080's pricing scheme a 1080 Ti would have to be at least $800 USD "MSRP", to say nothing of a founder's edition. At that point you're basically talking about Titan prices, and a ~$1200 Titan begins to seem 'reasonable'.

     
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