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[Various] Pascal Titan could be 50% faster than the GeForce GTX 1080 - Rumoured to launch in August - Page 76  

post #751 of 956
I haven't kept up with this thread but I really really hope that Vega falls much closer to the TitanP than the 1080. I will most likely get one either way though, unless Nvidia suddenly starts supporting freesync monitors.
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post #752 of 956
I already see where the new "Titan Mini" direction is going in if true:

x80 series -> Big Titan: Charge $1200~$1500 instead of $500
x70 series -> Small Titan: Charge $1000 instead of $350
x60 Series -> New x80 Ti series: Charge $850 instead of $200
x50 series -> new x80 series: Charge $700 instead of $100

If you think I'm just pulling that out of my ass then just look at the newest pricing schemes. You used to be able to buy Nvidia's highest end GPU for $500. I don't think inflation is 100% over the course of 5'ish years. Anyone old enough whos been buying and installing graphics cards since the beginning already know Nvidias new BS pricing model after they released the "high end" gtx 680. If they do a Titan AND a Titan mini then they just did it AGAIN and just took this a step further.

I'll let you in on a secret classified Nvidia company secret. A "high end" GPU with a single 8 pin or a 2x6pin power connector is NOT a "highly efficient" and "advanced technology" GPU....it's a mid-range GPU being labeled & sold as a high end GPU. Nvidia made it sound like they reinvented the wheel when they stuck two "high end" GTX 680's on a single card and called it a GTX 690 which wasn't completely gimped like the previous generation of dual GPUs. Not really a feat of technology when they were really just 2x midrange GPUs...
post #753 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

I agree that if Vega can only compete with the 1080, Titan P will be the only choice available as an upgrade path for 980Ti owners unless they want to wait for Volta. Why waste chips on a 1080ti, when you can get so much more from the chips selling them as Titans?

I agree that an "affordable" GP100/102 will not be released if Vega isn't competitive but there is more to optimizing profit than pricing one product through the roof because you do not have strong competition. The x80Ti seems to be a strong brand at this point, probably even stronger than Titan due to the 980Ti, no reason not to capitalize on it.

Think of price v.s. demand curves, you want to maximize your profit which means picking the optimal point on the price/demand curve. Having multiple products allows you to cover multiple points on the curve. This also allows you to increase the top price point at lot, well above what would be optimal given only one product. All they need is something to differentiate the higher price points enough that not too many people who would have paid more get the cheaper version.

HBM2 might do it, a 12GB HBM2 Titan at $1400, a 16GB one at $2000, and a 12GB GDDR5X 1080Ti at $999 might offer Nvidia higher profits than simply trying to sell the two Titans for $1200 and $1500.

It is hard to know, I don't have a lot of good market research data on GPUs, but it really isn't as simple as "AMD has nothing near this performance so we will just sell this one for a lot".

Intel still releases the cheap version of their -E line. Why doesn't Intel only sell the 6950X since AMD doesn't have anything to compete at the high end? The 1080 is the 6700K and a theoretical 1080Ti would be the 6800K/6850K.
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post #754 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post


I agree that an "affordable" GP100/102 will not be released if Vega isn't competitive but there is more to optimizing profit than pricing one product through the roof because you do not have strong competition. The x80Ti seems to be a strong brand at this point, probably even stronger than Titan due to the 980Ti, no reason not to capitalize on it.

Think of price v.s. demand curves, you want to maximize your profit which means picking the optimal point on the price/demand curve. Having multiple products allows you to cover multiple points on the curve. This also allows you to increase the top price point at lot, well above what would be optimal given only one product. All they need is something to differentiate the higher price points enough that not too many people who would have paid more get the cheaper version.

HBM2 might do it, a 12GB HBM2 Titan at $1400, a 16GB one at $2000, and a 12GB GDDR5X 1080Ti at $999 might offer Nvidia higher profits than simply trying to sell the two Titans for $1200 and $1500.

It is hard to know, I don't have a lot of good market research data on GPUs, but it really isn't as simple as "AMD has nothing near this performance so we will just sell this one for a lot".

 

You make some good points though in a larger sense I'd say that a 1080 Ti as you describe it at that price-point would ipso facto be a Titan. I could definitely see a tier-based scheme as you lay out, and I think that's actually a very reasonable prediction assuming a non-competitive Vega. What I'll say as a qualification is that when we discuss the *80 Ti, we're usually talking about Titan performance at a price nearer the *80 than the Titan, at least as far as reference. Going with your pontification and adding the element of FE, the *80 Ti becoming a 'tiered' member of the Titan grouping by virtue of price and performance will have eliminated that 'superb value' feeling that people took from the 980 Ti. I'm not saying it wouldn't sell - it would, and likely very well. It's a bit of labelling-semantics but I think it's worth considering in terms of what consumers expect and hope for with regards to *80 Ti.

     
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post #755 of 956
A "1080 Ti" in name only is really just another Titan.
post #756 of 956
It is just hard to imagine having 600mm^2 gaming GPU this year when we just started getting 16nm 1080 in May in limited quantities.
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post #757 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyumi View Post

I already see where the new "Titan Mini" direction is going in if true:

x80 series -> Big Titan: Charge $1200~$1500 instead of $500
x70 series -> Small Titan: Charge $1000 instead of $350
x60 Series -> New x80 Ti series: Charge $850 instead of $200
x50 series -> new x80 series: Charge $700 instead of $100

If you think I'm just pulling that out of my ass then just look at the newest pricing schemes. You used to be able to buy Nvidia's highest end GPU for $500. I don't think inflation is 100% over the course of 5'ish years. Anyone old enough whos been buying and installing graphics cards since the beginning already know Nvidias new BS pricing model after they released the "high end" gtx 680. If they do a Titan AND a Titan mini then they just did it AGAIN and just took this a step further.

I'll let you in on a secret classified Nvidia company secret. A "high end" GPU with a single 8 pin or a 2x6pin power connector is NOT a "highly efficient" and "advanced technology" GPU....it's a mid-range GPU being labeled & sold as a high end GPU. Nvidia made it sound like they reinvented the wheel when they stuck two "high end" GTX 680's on a single card and called it a GTX 690 which wasn't completely gimped like the previous generation of dual GPUs. Not really a feat of technology when they were really just 2x midrange GPUs...
Call it BS or whatever, ultimately nVidia can do whatever they want as long as it remains highly profitable, which heavily depends on competition from AMD. At the end of the day they're a business with shareholders and their business decisions are determined by sales. And sales are damn good right now.
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post #758 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

You make some good points though in a larger sense I'd say that a 1080 Ti as you describe it at that price-point would ipso facto be a Titan. I could definitely see a tier-based scheme as you lay out, and I think that's actually a very reasonable prediction assuming a non-competitive Vega. What I'll say as a qualification is that when we discuss the *80 Ti, we're usually talking about Titan performance at a price nearer the *80 than the Titan, at least as far as reference. Going with your pontification and adding the element of FE, the *80 Ti becoming a 'tiered' member of the Titan grouping by virtue of price and performance will have eliminated that 'superb value' feeling that people took from the 980 Ti. I'm not saying it wouldn't sell - it would, and likely very well. It's a bit of labelling-semantics but I think it's worth considering in terms of what consumers expect and hope for with regards to *80 Ti.

You make a good point, I think this is exactly why people do not believe a 1080Ti will come out if Vega isn't competitive.

And yes, a $999 1080Ti could easily be thought of as part of the Titan line, as far as price/performance goes. However, assuming AMD is not competitive (NOT a given) they might be able to push up the top price point in the way the original Titan did and the Titan Z was laughed at for trying.

Ouch. redface.gif
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post #759 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

It boggles my mind that people are so insistent that 1080 Ti will be a thing regardless of competition. AMD has nothing to compete with 1080 right now, and if Vega only ends up around 1080 level, that's still not much competition. So if this were to happen, why exactly would nVidia need to bring out a 1080 Ti? Because 980 Ti and Titan X owners need something to upgrade to? Well the 1080 will always be around, and if you want more of an upgrade, feel free to step right up to the $1300+ Titan P. No 1080 Ti needed. Or you could always go and buy Vega if you wanted to save a few bucks (yeah like that's gonna happen *snort*).

Exactly. If Vega turns out to be the true flop the Nvidia fanboys seem to be praying for you can go ahead and mark it down that there will be no 1080Ti at all... rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post

It is just hard to imagine having 600mm^2 gaming GPU this year when we just started getting 16nm 1080 in May in limited quantities.

That's because it ain't happening, no matter how over excited guttheslayer's rhetoric gets...
post #760 of 956
I see a lot of people speculating and saying that Vega will be non-competitive and inferior to the Titan. Do we even know anything solid about Vega yet?
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