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I discovered something about mouse clicking finger knuckle pain today

post #1 of 24
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I have been trying to find the right mouse for FPS as of late and I have been buying lots of different ones. So far I have bought the G400, G900, Death Adder Chroma, Kone Pure Military and Niexus Revel I haven't tested the KPM yet or the Revel as I haven't received them in the mail yet.

I remember back when I was playing CS GO frequently I was having pain in my clicking finger knuckle using the G400. It eventually got bad enough that I stopped playing for a week to see if it would heal and I never picked it back up. With Overwatch coming out and wanting to play that I went out and bought the G900. I have been using that for weeks and things have been great. No knuckle pain to speak of and I really sort of forgot about the issue until I tested the Death Adder yesterday. 3 rounds in and my clicking finger started to get really sore. One more round and I had to quit. Too sore to continue. I analyzed what was going on and realized that the shape of the Death Adder makes me arch my finger when I click and the shape of the G900 makes me lay my finger flat. Seems like this is what makes all the difference. When you are arching your knuckle I am guessing that at the end of the click the force of clicking down compacts the joint a tiny bit and time after time of it happening makes it sore. I picked up the G400 and I see that basically the same thing happens. I would really like to find another mouse that is wired that gives me the same clicking position as the G900. I am really liking the G900 but I like to switch off every so often. I will find out how the KPM is when I get it in the mail today. The Revel will be a few weeks out

Here are some pictures to better show what I am talking about. These are the natural clicking positions for me with each mouse.







EDIT:
I also just realized that the mouse I used for years playing BF2, CS Source and BFBC2 makes my finger lay the same as the G900. It's the Razer Lachesis with the god awful Phillips Twin Eye sensor. I thought it broke so I replaced it with the G500 and I sort of remember that's when the click finger pain started. I think I am on to something here!!!




EDIT 2:

KPM is good too. See post below! Here is the pic


Edited by killeraxemannic - 7/6/16 at 8:31pm
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post #2 of 24

Yep. I will never understand how anyone can use the "claw grip" and not end up with pain or other problems. To me, there's really only one correct way to hold the mouse, and it's the way you are discovering results in absolutely no pain. The reason why it ends up being pain-free is, your hand is completely relaxed. The claw grip doesn't allow for complete relaxation. Those people who use the claw grip frequently are going to end up with pain sooner or later.

 

So yeah, what you're discovering is, how to hold and use a mouse ergonomically (properly). The only time I ever employ anything similar to the claw grip is when my hands are cold and dry and slippery. I usually take care of that with a space heater or something so that I can finally relax.


Edited by TwoCables - 7/6/16 at 12:02pm
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post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Yep. I will never understand how anyone can use the "claw grip" and not end up with pain or other problems. To me, there's really only one correct way to hold the mouse, and it's the way you are discovering results in absolutely no pain. The reason why it ends up being pain-free is, your hand is completely relaxed. The claw grip doesn't allow for complete relaxation. Those people who use the claw grip frequently are going to end up with pain sooner or later.

So yeah, what you're discovering is, how to hold and use a mouse ergonomically (properly). The only time I ever employ anything similar to the claw grip is when my hands are cold and dry and slippery. I usually take care of that with a space heater or something so that I can finally relax.

What people refer to as 'complete relaxation' is actually 'the minimum amount of musclemovement needed'. You can see it clearly on 100m sprinters, their face muscles bounce up and down while running 100m below 10s .)
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conditioned View Post


What people refer to as 'complete relaxation' is actually 'the minimum amount of musclemovement needed'. You can see it clearly on 100m sprinters, their face muscles bounce up and down while running 100m below 10s .)

 

I don't understand how that relates to using a mouse. Can you elaborate? These are two extremely different things here.

 

The grip that's relieving all of killeraxemannic's pain is due to total relaxation - the hand is being used in a natural, ergonomic way. No muscles are needed in order to hold the grip position: he just puts his hand on his mouse and it just sits there. The Claw Grip isn't total relaxation, not in my experience anyway. How about your experience? Unless your skin or your mouse is very sticky or 'tacky', the hand can't be completely relaxed in the claw grip because without that sticky/tacky grip, your fingers want to slide and your hand wants to naturally rest completely on the mouse like killeraxemannic is showing here.

 

In order to have no pain while doing something as seemingly harmless as using a mouse, the secret is to be relaxed while doing it. That 'Claw Grip" has never struck me as a way to hold or use the mouse that allows for the hand to be totally relaxed with absolutely no risk of pain later on down the road. Even right now, if I try to use the Claw Grip vs. just letting my hand rest naturally on the mouse (the Palm Grip I guess), my hand feels comparatively quite tense. I'd need a very sticky rubber mouse or dirty/sticky/sweaty hands or a grippy rubber glove so that I can let the claw grip stay in position without me having to use any muscles to hold the claw grip position. These are very small muscles, so this a big deal to them.


Edited by TwoCables - 7/6/16 at 12:18pm
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post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Yep. I will never understand how anyone can use the "claw grip" and not end up with pain or other problems. To me, there's really only one correct way to hold the mouse, and it's the way you are discovering results in absolutely no pain. The reason why it ends up being pain-free is, your hand is completely relaxed. The claw grip doesn't allow for complete relaxation. Those people who use the claw grip frequently are going to end up with pain sooner or later.

So yeah, what you're discovering is, how to hold and use a mouse ergonomically (properly). The only time I ever employ anything similar to the claw grip is when my hands are cold and dry and slippery. I usually take care of that with a space heater or something so that I can finally relax.

People have different hands. If I completely relax my fingers, they're bent at like a 90 degree angle at the middle knuckle. A fully flat palm style grip like he has on the G900 is thoroughly uncomfortable for me; if my bottom knuckles don't get to bend downward somewhat (in a claw-grip type fashion) then I'll get a fair amount of pain after a while.
post #6 of 24
It depends on the game really. In some games, especially FPS, you need to be able to stop on a dime. It's difficult to do that with a loose grip. Your hand naturally tenses up to increase your precision in those situations. If you can get away with playing well with a loose grip, then more power to you.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ak57 View Post


People have different hands. If I completely relax my fingers, they're bent at like a 90 degree angle at the middle knuckle. A fully flat palm style grip like he has on the G900 is thoroughly uncomfortable for me; if my bottom knuckles don't get to bend downward somewhat (in a claw-grip type fashion) then I'll get a fair amount of pain after a while.

 

I never said to match the look of his hand. I'm just saying that people need to pay attention to what their hand is doing on a mouse when they aren't holding any tension in any of its muscles. That's what's going to allow you to use your mouse the longest without any pain or discomfort. I don't care if your hand looks like it's using the claw grip: if you can completely "let go" in your hand and still use your mouse but it still looks like you're using the claw grip, then ok fine that's cool. It doesn't matter. But the actual "Claw Grip" is something I have NEVER found to be a way to hold and use my mouse that allows my hand to be completely relaxed. I can still "let go" from that grip and my hand returns to just resting naturally on my mouse.

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post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

I never said to match the look of his hand. I'm just saying that people need to pay attention to what their hand is doing on a mouse when they aren't holding any tension in any of its muscles. That's what's going to allow you to use your mouse the longest without any pain or discomfort. I don't care if your hand looks like it's using the claw grip: if you can completely "let go" in your hand and still use your mouse but it still looks like you're using the claw grip, then ok fine that's cool. It doesn't matter. But the actual "Claw Grip" is something I have NEVER found to be a way to hold and use my mouse that allows my hand to be completely relaxed. I can still "let go" from that grip and my hand returns to just resting naturally on my mouse.

I was responding to you to acting like claw grip is objectively uncomfortable/not ergonomic when it really comes down to the specific person's hand. Not everyone is built the same so what is relaxing for you/OP is not necessarily relaxing for others.
post #9 of 24
The thing is you also want to be able to have a good grip and be able to lift the mouse fast, access the side buttons and all that.. so it's often a compromise .
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spamilton View Post

It depends on the game really. In some games, especially FPS, you need to be able to stop on a dime. It's difficult to do that with a loose grip. Your hand naturally tenses up to increase your precision in those situations. If you can get away with playing well with a loose grip, then more power to you.

 

I'm not really talking about loose. I'm talking about not keeping the fingers bent for long periods of time, under tension - all tight. That can result in carpal tunnel syndrome.

 

I guess everyone will have to experience pain like killeraxemannic has in order to figure this out.

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