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Which fan? airflow or static pressure? - Page 4

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

You accidentally used the F140MP stats there. The F120MP is below, and follows suit to ~1500 rpm. But, it certainly appears the F120MP moves more air through the rad with less noise through it's bandwidth. The 120ML is simply higher rpm. And every time I see something like this, I remember why the F120MP are on my rad after trying a dozen other top name fans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dlewbell View Post

Is that the PH-F120MP or PH-F140MP info you're using? It says both in different parts of the chart. Either way, the info is useful, but of course in this case we're specifically discussing the 120mm fans.
As 'Eagle Eye' aka ciarlatano pointed out it is indeed PH-F140MP. blushsmiley.gif

Here I did it again with PH-F120MP and it's not as much differenct then others .. being it's 120mm with 120mm fans. But it is still better than the others. Obviously not as high an rpm fans so it's graph does not go as far up, but it's noise to airflow is slightly better. My guess is still within margin of error of this kind of testing, but it still shows the ML 120 Pro is just another one of the good airflow fans with a new kind of bearing. It may be a good design and good quality control, but that remains to be seen. At first Vardar looked like it was going to unthrone GT an others, but it's still seems to be having some problems. I'll wait and see what these ML 120's do in the next 6 months. .. and try to keep my 120mm fans and 140mm fans in focus. blushsmiley.gif



post #32 of 58
Best to PM me, doyll. That @ thingy has never worked for me, and I only just happened to chance on this when browsing through the section.

I'll save you the trouble of guessing and make you the plot (I had an error in some of the earlier plots wherein I had not accounted for the probe calibration, the latest one in the Fractal Design Venturi HP-12 has the right ones for sure):

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

I consider the PH-F120MP as a super dark horse in that very few even consider it, but I recommend it to anyone who contacts me asking for a noise optimized static pressure fan. It's not the best performer, but it is very good too. In fact, thanks for making me add it in there- I didn't realize how good it was at lower speeds compared to the other performance oriented fans. Ditto with the Fractal Venturi HP-12 but unfortunately it looks like it will fail my long term testing (bearing noises) frown.gif
Edited by geggeg - 7/22/16 at 12:04pm
post #33 of 58
Double post but this may interest people as well: SPCR was helping Corsair with their ML fans, they have the best independent sound testing facility in NA dedicated to this hobby so I think it was a smart move to use their services. That being said, I don't know if they will actually do a review of the fans since they were somewhat involved, although Mike is enough of a professional to where I trust his decision either way.
post #34 of 58
What fan should you get? NF12 2000rpm industrial fan.


Why? High CFM when needed. Durability. Longevity. High static pressure ensures airflow through/around any obstructions. The fan doesn't just shoot air forward, it shoots it in an expanding plume, which allows for overall more coverage over components, like the spaces between hard drives. Since you have several drives and only one front fan, this fan will be the best you can do. It will also be strong enough to blow through the exhaust as well, so you could use it without an exhaust fan, or at the very least, it won't matter how weak your exhaust fan is.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608051

If you want a little more oomph, there's also a 3000rpm version

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608052

As for the 80mm fan, even the best don't really deliver much CFM, even a cheapo 120mm will deliver more CFM than the best 80mm fans, so I'd just go with pretty much any 80mm as long as it won't break down quickly.

And unlike a lot of people who have never actually used the products they recommend, I can actually speak from experience. This is a drop in and forget fan, because it will do what you need it to do, and do it for years and years.
Edited by AMDATI - 7/24/16 at 1:25pm
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post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

What fan should you get? NF12 2000rpm industrial fan.


Why? High CFM when needed. Durability. Longevity. High static pressure ensures airflow through/around any obstructions. The fan doesn't just shoot air forward, it shoots it in an expanding plume, which allows for overall more coverage over components. Since you have several drives and only one front fan, this fan will be the best you can do. It will also be strong enough to blow through the exhaust as well, so you could use it without an exhaust fan, or at the very least, it won't matter how weak your exhaust fan is.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608051
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608047

The difference between the two is that one is airflow optimized (air flows straight down center, gets impeded more easily) so it delivers overall lower CFM but may offer better central coverage.

As for the 80mm fan, even the best don't really deliver much CFM, even a cheapo 120mm will deliver more CFM than the best 80mm fans, so I'd just go with pretty much any 80mm as long as it won't break down quickly.

And unlike a lot of people who have never actually used the products they recommend, I can actually speak from experience.

The fact that they are two different size fans may be considered just a slight bit of a difference as well.......rolleyes.gif

And, overall, the iPPC are a somewhat disappointing series of fans in terms of performance and noise.




And I can safely say that the main contributors to this thread would have just a little bit of experience with these and many, many other fans in controlled testing environments.....
Edited by ciarlatano - 7/24/16 at 1:21pm
post #36 of 58
The NF Industrial fans plume off to the sides a bit, that's why that test is inaccurate. So of course there's going to be less air hitting 6 inches in front of it. The benefit as an exhaust fan is the static pressure and CFM it pulls, while the benefit as an intake fan is the overall coverage it provides within a closed case, along with flowing through/around obstructions. Not to mention its high quality construction materials and motor design.

As for noise, DB isn't all telling, you can have a lower noise fan that emits more annoying noise frequencies.

I wouldn't consider 6 inches away as a good test of noise either, since most people are going to be much further than 6 inches from their PC case. You could argue that scales with other fans as well so they'll be even more quiet at a greater distance, but by the time the actual distance is considered, virtually all of these fans could be considered soo essentially the same, that the results cancel themselves out and become useless for consideration entirely.
Edited by AMDATI - 7/24/16 at 1:49pm
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post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

The NF Industrial fans plume off to the sides a bit, that's why that test is inaccurate. So of course there's going to be less air hitting 6 inches in front of it. The benefit as an exhaust fan is the static pressure and CFM it pulls, while the benefit as an intake fan is the overall coverage it provides within a closed case, along with flowing through/around obstructions. Not to mention its high quality construction materials and motor design.

As for noise, DB isn't all telling, you can have a lower noise fan that emits more annoying noise frequencies.

I wouldn't consider 6 inches away as a good test of noise either, since most people are going to be much further than 6 inches from their PC case. You could argue that scales with other fans as well so they'll be even more quiet at a greater distance, but by the time the actual distance is considered, virtually all of these fans could be considered soo essentially the same, that the results cancel themselves out and become useless for consideration entirely.

Yeah....ok.......that's a really long way of saying "I haven't used any of these other fans", and a lot of justifying your purchase to yourself.

Carry on.....nothing to see here.
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

The NF Industrial fans plume off to the sides a bit, that's why that test is inaccurate.
If you've identified that, then you've identified a design flaw that reduces static pressure. Cases are designed to be used with fans that are at least half-decent at focusing their airflow, meaning anything that plumes off is going to be a problem. You've essentially tried to tout a fundamental disadvantage as a practical use-case advantage, which isn't something that could or should be done with cooling parts. If you like Noctua as a company, that's fine, just don't oversell their products or recommend them without consideration for the application. I play favorites to VERY few companies (I won't name them right now as they aren't relevant), and only because they have something for everyone for nearly every applicable use-case scenario, if at a price. Noctua is more or less a niche-cutting company selling products for extremely specific purposes, though they do have a couple of decent all-purpose fans that are priced to where the customer has to decide if they're worth it.
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post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

The NF Industrial fans plume off to the sides a bit, that's why that test is inaccurate. So of course there's going to be less air hitting 6 inches in front of it. The benefit as an exhaust fan is the static pressure and CFM it pulls, while the benefit as an intake fan is the overall coverage it provides within a closed case, along with flowing through/around obstructions. Not to mention its high quality construction materials and motor design.

As for noise, DB isn't all telling, you can have a lower noise fan that emits more annoying noise frequencies.

I wouldn't consider 6 inches away as a good test of noise either, since most people are going to be much further than 6 inches from their PC case. You could argue that scales with other fans as well so they'll be even more quiet at a greater distance, but by the time the actual distance is considered, virtually all of these fans could be considered soo essentially the same, that the results cancel themselves out and become useless for consideration entirely.

You know that's airflow measured through a radiator, correct? I don't care what the air does after it passes through it, I was testing how fans respond when up against air flow restriction. I am not testing these as case fans at all, and no one should use my numbers for such recommendations as I keep insisting.

As far as why 6" for noise measurements? Primarily to get a good SNR in an anechoic chamber at 19 dBA. ISO tests are done at 1 meter but I found it's too unreliable and inconsistent. If I had a ~11 dBA chamber then sure, 1 meter would have been fine.
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Yeah....ok.......that's a really long way of saying "I haven't used any of these other fans", and a lot of justifying your purchase to yourself.

Carry on.....nothing to see here.


Ah so I must disprove several fans in great detail.....just to prove 1 fan.......while you only have to say you disapprove of one fan to win the argument? Seems like you're the one trying to convince yourself.

Let's 'attack' your original suggestion though. The Phanteks F120MP. First of all, I would expect a $12-$16 fan to have some corners cut, no way around it. They both have the same type of bearing, but the details in that can differ enough to affect performance and longevity. It's listed with a max airflow of 53cfm, 1.72 static pressure rating, ~1800RPM, 2.4w, 25 decibels.

Now let's look at the Noctua NF12 fan. It's listed with a max airflow of 71cfm, 3.94 static pressure rating, ~2000RPM, 1.2 watts, 29.7 decibels.


So right off the bat there are some clear differences.

The Noctua has more than twice the static pressure rating, more CFM, and does it at half the wattage. Anything under ~30 decibals in PC fans is considered functionally quiet. It's not like he has to run it at top speed either, even at half speed it would be functionally quieter than the Phanteks and still deliver more CFM.

Now let's interpret some of these numbers; It spins 10% faster while using half the wattage. You know what the means? A more efficient design/motor.

And that's all without even getting into its IP52 certification along with its Fibre-glass reinforced polyamide construction, oh and Noctua offers a year more on the warranty. Oh and there's a 3000 RPM version too. Yeah some of these aren't exactly necessary, since if water gets into a PC the last thing you're worried about is the fans protection, and the strength and temperatures Fibre-glass reinforced polyamide can take, really aren't all that necessary.....but they do indicate quality. And at higher RPM's, like 3000, I would say that the strength does come in handy for providing stability, since you won't get flexing that could reduce performance.

Since the guy only has a single 120mm intake cooling multiple drives pressed right up against the fan, he's going to want something high static pressure, high CFM.


Noctua uses a 3 phase motor, I don't know what motor the Phanteks uses, but I think it's safe to say it's not as good. This isn't a gimmick feature either. And I still haven't covered all the features.

http://noctua.at/en/three-phase-motor




Edited by AMDATI - 7/24/16 at 8:44pm
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