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post #161 of 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliquis View Post

Just speculation, but what if this impulsive scanning works with variable refresh (with freesync enabled) and they decided on the lowest sync range of 70hz on purpose because, if you use freesync and ulmb, the monitor hz can get very low if the fps are low and this would introduce obvious flicker, but if the monitor starts to framedouble (LFC) at 70h,z you would have 140hz strobing again (it would possibly introduce some other issues but arguably still better then low hz flicker).

I hope that's the case but don't expect it to be. Plus I think many would prefer double strobing to take over below 100 Hz. 85 Hz ULMB for example scrambles my brain, and flicker aside the crosstalk is awful to the point where strobing is harmful to motion clarity, although double strobing wouldn't help with that.

An interesting implementation would be VRR + strobing automatically enabled above 100 Hz.
Edited by boredgunner - 10/11/16 at 8:51am
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post #162 of 4212
Double strobing looks worse than no blur reduction at all.

Have you guys actually SEEN double strobing?
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post #163 of 4212
No, but i think in theory it should look like ghosting right ?
post #164 of 4212
Could someone hit me up when you see these for sale in the USA? Every day I wait impatiently for that 34"
post #165 of 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

Double strobing looks worse than no blur reduction at all.

Have you guys actually SEEN double strobing?

Nope but I hear it has lots of crosstalk. I'll see it on Thursday. Single strobe 85 Hz on a fast IPS looks worse than no strobing too, and single strobe 100 Hz is about equal to 100 Hz/100 FPS with no strobing in my opinion (the crosstalk there is no better or worse than the motion blur without it). I like my second idea in my previous post.
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post #166 of 4212
I am not following you at all. Lets put the flicker issue at low hz aside.

ULMB reduces the persistance, instead of showing a frame for the full refresh period as is usual for LCD hold displays, it only shows it for a short time. Therefor decreasing the perceived motion blur caused by the eyemovment (it can also hide the pixel transitions if properly implemented).

Without ULMB, the lower the refresh rate, the longer a refresh period and the persistance, therefor the more benefit you can get from ULMB.

At 60hz ULMB can remove much more of the blur (up to about 15ms) than at 144hz where the frames get only shown for about 7ms where it will only remove about 6ms of perceived blur.

Why do you argue that the higher the refresh the better ULMB, shouldn't it be exactly the opposite?

Or are you arguing that because at low refresh rates the motion blur is masking many imperfections (frame pacing issues, judder etc) that get visible by enabling ULMB, the perceived expierience gets worse, so one should only remove the blur if the framerate is very high and stable ?
post #167 of 4212
There is literally no reason to go for the G-Sync version since the defining feature is strobing and the G-Sync module isn't suited to backlight modulation at 144Hz very much, thank you. Nvidia seems to be clipping the wings in order to keep the strobe from taking flight from the G-Sync nest because let's face it: no one needs VRR when compared to strobe, particularly at 144Hz.
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post #168 of 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliquis View Post

I am not following you at all. Lets put the flicker issue at low hz aside.

ULMB reduces the persistance, instead of showing a frame for the full refresh period as is usual for LCD hold displays, it only shows it for a short time. Therefor decreasing the perceived motion blur caused by the eyemovment (it can also hide the pixel transitions if properly implemented).

Without ULMB, the lower the refresh rate, the longer a refresh period and the persistance, therefor the more benefit you can get from ULMB.

At 60hz ULMB can remove much more of the blur (up to about 15ms) than at 144hz where the frames get only shown for about 7ms where it will only remove about 6ms of perceived blur.

Why do you argue that the higher the refresh the better ULMB, shouldn't it be exactly the opposite?

Or are you arguing that because at low refresh rates the motion blur is masking many imperfections (frame pacing issues, judder etc) that get visible by enabling ULMB, the perceived expierience gets worse, so one should only remove the blur if the framerate is very high and stable ?

As refresh rate goes down, strobe crosstalk gets worse. This isn't just my experience with my XB270HU, pursuit camera photos from TFTCentral and the like demonstrate it too. The crosstalk at 85 Hz on my XB270HU is far more detrimental to motion clarity than the motion blur without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

There is literally no reason to go for the G-Sync version since the defining feature is strobing and the G-Sync module isn't suited to backlight modulation at 144Hz very much, thank you. Nvidia seems to be clipping the wings in order to keep the strobe from taking flight from the G-Sync nest because let's face it: no one needs VRR when compared to strobe, particularly at 144Hz.

Nobody needs VRR... if you can maintain over 100 FPS in every game you play, yeah.
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post #169 of 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliquis View Post

I am not following you at all. Lets put the flicker issue at low hz aside.

ULMB reduces the persistance, instead of showing a frame for the full refresh period as is usual for LCD hold displays, it only shows it for a short time. Therefor decreasing the perceived motion blur caused by the eyemovment (it can also hide the pixel transitions if properly implemented).

Without ULMB, the lower the refresh rate, the longer a refresh period and the persistance, therefor the more benefit you can get from ULMB.

At 60hz ULMB can remove much more of the blur (up to about 15ms) than at 144hz where the frames get only shown for about 7ms where it will only remove about 6ms of perceived blur.

Why do you argue that the higher the refresh the better ULMB, shouldn't it be exactly the opposite?

Or are you arguing that because at low refresh rates the motion blur is masking many imperfections (frame pacing issues, judder etc) that get visible by enabling ULMB, the perceived expierience gets worse, so one should only remove the blur if the framerate is very high and stable ?

The point of ULMB is to only show you the screen when it is fully "painted" and eliminate unwanted colour transitions. But because you are pulsing the light and not using sample & hold you will get headaches at low refresh rates. Ideally you want +100hz to make sure that people will cope with it. Some might handle 60hz... but most won't, just as most wouldn't be happy with a CRT @ 60hz. Same principle.
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post #170 of 4212
I don't want to sound arrogant but the point of ultra low motion blur is to reduce motion blur obviously, and that is not caused primarily by pixeltransitions but by the sample and hold nature of LCD displays and by the human eye movement. By reducing persistance to a short flicker during each refresh, like CRT monitors back than, perceived motion blur caused by human eye movement gets reduced.
Quote:
As refresh rate goes down, strobe crosstalk gets worse. This isn't just my experience with my XB270HU, pursuit camera photos from TFTCentral and the like demonstrate it too. The crosstalk at 85 Hz on my XB270HU is far more detrimental to motion clarity than the motion blur without it.

I think you are confusing what crosstalk is. It refers to when pixel transitions are so slow that a transition from the last frame or even older reaches into the next. Therefor crosstalk is worse the higher the hz are, because the refresh periods get shorter and the chance that a transitions lasts all the way into the next refresh higher and vice versa.
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