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Ongoing Pascal latency problems - Hotfix doesn't work for everyone. - Page 97

post #961 of 1679
Tested Windows 7 clean install, just this driver with hotfix.

Still major stuttering in game.

Tested with Intel 4000 HD GPU, smooth as butter (except a bit lower fps but ofcourse....)

Yeah.... This driver sucks balls.
post #962 of 1679
Welp, I downloaded a MSI utility that listed everything I could enable MSI on and did it for everything. Ended up being 20 items that had it enabled. Verified through the device manager that MSI was working upon restart. I don't know if its mostly placebo effect because Afterburner clearly still shows frametime spikes but I am not at least feeling them as much as before. Feels almost less frequently microstuttering yet still occuring. Well I will take a small win for now. I patiently await further driver progress.
post #963 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by xer0h0ur View Post

Welp, I downloaded a MSI utility that listed everything I could enable MSI on and did it for everything. Ended up being 20 items that had it enabled. Verified through the device manager that MSI was working upon restart. I don't know if its mostly placebo effect because Afterburner clearly still shows frametime spikes but I am not at least feeling them as much as before. Feels almost less frequently microstuttering yet still occuring. Well I will take a small win for now. I patiently await further driver progress.
I'm really curious how your card would do in sb else's system.
post #964 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahar View Post

Where did you pull these numbers from? ;P Because I'm 100% sure you didn't test every configuration! smile.gif

I've tried everything. I've been tweaking Windows since XP days. There are many reports of over 600us spikes on older NVIDIA hardware. I am not the only one.
It's definitely Nvidia's driver or their 3rd party card makers fault (Evga, etc..) I suspect it's only some manufacturers that have these higher latencies.

I am currently sitting at 10 processes running, disabled everything that I don't use.

Got them numbers from my backside thumb.gif

Nah, offcourse i havent tested every configuration but like Harney i also deal with lots of computers/custumors and have done for many years.
I have some "audiophile" custumors and they can be very demanding when it comes to latency.

It is indeed known that NV drivers always had more latency then the competition but the days off those 600us peaks are over really with modern CPU's and boards.
Yes if you google Nvidia latency you get lots of results with very high latency but they are mostly all from a several years ago or old/crappy computers.

Not saying that Nvidia drivers are perfect now (for previous generations) but it shouldnt be to hard to stay under 200us with Nvidia drivers now.

@Eorzean.
I didnt say having above 200us is per definition bad (for some people it is)
I did say that if you do have have it above 200us something else then just Nvidia driver alone could be amiss.

If your fine then it IS fine because its your PC and its about you.
But if i would show a custumor of mine (audio engineer or audiophile) this picture: (your pc) they would refuse to buy/pay for the computer.
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post #965 of 1679
This reminds me of the GTX680 V-Sync stutter bug. Some people had it, some people didn't. Driver fix came out, didn't positively resolve the issue for everyone. I don't know what the final outcome was with that, as I gave up following it. That was the reason I passed up an offer to upgrade from my 580 to 680 for free.

I definitely won't be going anywhere near Pascal until this has been absolutely resolved.
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post #966 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by xer0h0ur View Post

Welp, I downloaded a MSI utility that listed everything I could enable MSI on and did it for everything. Ended up being 20 items that had it enabled. Verified through the device manager that MSI was working upon restart. I don't know if its mostly placebo effect because Afterburner clearly still shows frametime spikes but I am not at least feeling them as much as before. Feels almost less frequently microstuttering yet still occuring. Well I will take a small win for now. I patiently await further driver progress.

Curious, are you on Windows 10?

Either way on Windows 7 here when i enable the following for MSI they all crap out on me.

Enabling MSI mode on my Soundblaster Z is known not to work and cause audio cracking.
Enabling it on my IDE/AHCI controller results in BSOD.
Enabling MSI on my Network adapter doesnt work according to Intel documentation.
Enabling on USB2 controller wont work.

Curiously all my stuttering problems seem to be magically gone in Windows 10.
When I was configuring my system i noticed how much devices were actually in MSI mode by default compared to Windows 7.

Also a lot of drivers suddenly got updates and even the Intel Network adapter latest driver is fixed (was broken for years)
Guess Windows 10 gave the incentive for a lot of vendors to finally fix all of their junk.

I'll keep investigating.
Edited by Marctraider - 8/1/16 at 10:51am
post #967 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

Got them numbers from my backside thumb.gif

Nah, offcourse i havent tested every configuration but like Harney i also deal with lots of computers/custumors and have done for many years.
I have some "audiophile" custumors and they can be very demanding when it comes to latency.

It is indeed known that NV drivers always had more latency then the competition but the days off those 600us peaks are over really with modern CPU's and boards.
Yes if you google Nvidia latency you get lots of results with very high latency but they are mostly all from a several years ago or old/crappy computers.

Not saying that Nvidia drivers are perfect now (for previous generations) but it shouldnt be to hard to stay under 200us with Nvidia drivers now.

@Eorzean.
I didnt say having above 200us is per definition bad (for some people it is)
I did say that if you do have have it above 200us something else then just Nvidia driver alone could be amiss.

If your fine then it IS fine because its your PC and its about you.
But if i would show a custumor of mine (audio engineer or audiophile) this picture: (your pc) they would refuse to buy/pay for the computer.

Agree..^

@Yahar

Even some of my clients will not take a system anything above 50us .....but these are mainly DAW systems which can be doing 100 + tracks this can be internal audio /virtual instruments /external hardware ..where every clock cycle / polling / multiple drive speeds / ect ect is critical and these have to be built to accomadate this.

so this would be with specific motherboards / ram / GFX /SSD's HHD parts combined i have lists of parts what works well and not so well to get the best results across the board...
However this is an ever changing list as you have to keep up with new tech arriving but for DAW systems i usually use tech that as been in the wild for at least 6 months ...but with gaming peeps they want bleeding edge and want it here and right now hence the little pickle i am in as of now with these dreadful 10's

.You can get some great results with on board GFX or ATI err AMD cards the old matrox cards use to be great...its not just the card itself its mainly the driver that is a fault so called fine tuned

But its not only the parts that are used but the stripping the fat off the OS to make it lean this can take time getting it right

It only takes one part to slow everything down and when your working with 100's of tracks ect its critical to have extremely low latency most latency can be offloaded with ASIO or certain audio accelerator but the PC as a whole still as be as low a latency as you can achieve as it still deals with input output ect.

In audio work its critical as it only takes one track or external device to be out of sync to mess up the whole mix and producer /engineers /artist ect this is a no no a true creative killer as you do not want to be dealing with track sync issues when your trying to get a song down or just being creative..(however some great tracks songs have been made in error because of sync issues so even the ghost in the machine can be a bonus)

I have been there myself many times over the last 22 years and there is nothing worse than things screwing up in mid flight never mind things going to pot in a live environment ..

now as a gaming rig its not that important it still is but not as much ...this is where the problem lies allot of pro users will have say multiple machines one for DAW withno internet connected to these no network driver as these can be a real pain
video editing & gaming internet use and then one for admin use ect this is great if you have the dosh..

but a lot of peeps want a all in one box which is great but this is like a jack of all trades sort of pc and this is where the problem lies trying to get these things combined to run tip top across the board is very difficult...but its possible it just takes more time to tweak...so when you have a series of new cards the 10's where there your adding 100 200 spikes upto 500us+ even after the hot fix ......then this is a major problem to the entire system when its being used as a DAW system never mind anything else
post #968 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

This reminds me of the GTX680 V-Sync stutter bug. Some people had it, some people didn't. Driver fix came out, didn't positively resolve the issue for everyone. I don't know what the final outcome was with that, as I gave up following it. That was the reason I passed up an offer to upgrade from my 580 to 680 for free.

I definitely won't be going anywhere near Pascal until this has been absolutely resolved.

Yes the fix for that one on most not all problem games was un parking the cpu cores as with vsync you would be locked at 60fps and say the gfx was only being half used then the cpu in most cases would be underutilized and depending on how the game code was optimized for power features ect used you would be seeing the cpu parking unparking all the time... then you would see sorts of strange lag stutter on screen

usually disabling all the power states would solve this but not on every system .....this is where you would try this until

one game that use to be bad in vsync was metro 2033 moving side to side you would see it stuttering bad ... unpark the cores it would be perfect here is the tool this is an old DAW trick helps with my DAW builds too

http://www.coderbag.com/programming-c/disable-cpu-core-parking-utility


It means you can still have the power features on ....but not having to deal with parking issues.... in terms of it using more power its very minimal impact and in my book the parking of the cores is a little stupid another thing that adds problems to the system

However on laptops where every ounce of power is needed then core parking is great i am not 100 % on this but i am sure this is what it was originally designed for
Edited by harney - 8/1/16 at 6:45am
post #969 of 1679
post #970 of 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marctraider View Post

Curious, are you on Windows 10?

Either way on Windows 7 here when i enable the following for MSI they all crap out on me.

Enabling MSI mode on my Soundblaster Z is known not to work and cause audio cracking.
Enabling it on my IDE/AHCI controller results in BSOD.
Enabling MSI on my Network adapter doesnt work according to Intel documentation.
Enabling on USB2 controller wont work.

Curiously all my stuttering problems seem to be magically gone in Windows 10.
When I was configuring my system i noticed how much devices were actually in MSI mode by default compared to Windows 7.

Also a lot of drivers suddenly got updates and even the Intel Network adapter latest driver is fixed (was broken for years)
Guess Windows 10 gave the incentive for a lot of vendors to finally fix all of their junk.

I'll keep investigating.

Both times that I tried doing the Windows 10 upgrade from Windows update, it failed upon the first restart. Could never manage to make it work. Months ago I flat out just bought a Windows 10 Pro key so I could do the full install myself. Never got around to it. Still have two Windows 7 installations on two SSDs.
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