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post #221 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucake View Post

most legacy software/drivers from razer were not much different. they had to be (kept) installed in order for the mouse to be customizable at all. it also wasn't rare for the software to crash or cause freezes of your mouse or even entire PC.
it's crazy how bad razer has been with software since the very beginning. same goes for firmware unfortunately.

logitech is not perfect by any means but certainly a big step up in terms of consistency and reliability. i'm under the impression they're the only capable company :-/ unfortunately i don't really like their mice
a couple of months ago I had to go through 6 different revision of LGS to find something that would detect a g9, don't even want to think about all the times it crashed back when I actively used it. It really does feel ridiculous that this piece of crap is regarded as one of the better software/driver options :S
post #222 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan450 View Post

a couple of months ago I had to go through 6 different revision of LGS to find something that would detect a g9, don't even want to think about all the times it crashed back when I actively used it. It really does feel ridiculous that this piece of crap is regarded as one of the better software/driver options :S

It works fine for the more recent mice. Wasn't the G9 on setpoint back then?
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post #223 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venrar View Post

God forbid you have to do a firmware update, because the program takes five minutes to install.

It's not the time they are having issues with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucake View Post

most legacy software/drivers from razer were not much different. they had to be (kept) installed in order for the mouse to be customizable at all. it also wasn't rare for the software to crash or cause freezes of your mouse or even entire PC.
it's crazy how bad razer has been with software since the very beginning. same goes for firmware unfortunately.

logitech is not perfect by any means but certainly a big step up in terms of consistency and reliability. i'm under the impression they're the only capable company :-/ unfortunately i don't really like their mice

With my da 3g I could install the drivers, put my settings and uninstall without issues. Until ofc you unplugged it or pulled the power out of the computer. Reboots where fine. Last time I did this I even did a fresh install of the os and it still kept the settings.
post #224 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan450 View Post

a couple of months ago I had to go through 6 different revision of LGS to find something that would detect a g9, don't even want to think about all the times it crashed back when I actively used it. It really does feel ridiculous that this piece of crap is regarded as one of the better software/driver options :S

yeah, LGS has had a ton of issues as well and imo it's garbage.
though i was talking about legacy (razer) drivers, not about Synapse. logitech their earlier software was less unreliable because it was less bloated and less bug-prone.
i still think logitech beats razer in terms of reliability/consistency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conditioned View Post

With my da 3g I could install the drivers, put my settings and uninstall without issues. Until ofc you unplugged it or pulled the power out of the computer. Reboots where fine. Last time I did this I even did a fresh install of the os and it still kept the settings.

well for one, 3.05 caused freezing issues.
but just because you didn't have any issues doesn't mean what i said isn't true. razer has a bad history when it comes to software and firmware. and the lack of "proper on-board memory" on most of their mice didn't exactly help. it's kind of pathetic really.
defending something bad is so pointless
post #225 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan450 View Post

a couple of months ago I had to go through 6 different revision of LGS to find something that would detect a g9, don't even want to think about all the times it crashed back when I actively used it. It really does feel ridiculous that this piece of crap is regarded as one of the better software/driver options :S

I've never had any problems with their software on many different machines. thumb.gif
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post #226 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucake View Post


i still think logitech beats razer in terms of reliability/consistency.
well for one, 3.05 caused freezing issues.
but just because you didn't have any issues doesn't mean what i said isn't true. razer has a bad history when it comes to software and firmware. and the lack of "proper on-board memory" on most of their mice didn't exactly help. it's kind of pathetic really.
defending something bad is so pointless

Actually what I say just confirms and gives more detail on what you already said. However, other than synapse, I never had issues that I recall, with razers software, other than that their drivers/firmwares at times have sucked. I have pretty much only had experience with the da 3g though, and now with the abyssus 2014. The latter for just a few weeks tho.
post #227 of 423
Shape is perfectly fine. I like it a lot. I would make the butt shallower but it's not particular significant.

Feet are ****. I don't worry about damaging the bottom foot opening the mouse. I just apply a pattern of tape over it afterwards because things are better like that anyways.

Sensor doesn't track immediately if you set it down while moving particularly fast. This happens to the MLT04 and 3310 too, but on the MLT04 it seems to behave less poorly and on the 3310 it happens at a higher speed and seems like it starts tracking more easily.

The sensor tracks and tracks awkwardly when near the liftoff distance. LOD is rather high, probably almost three CDs.

The sensor has a minor Z-axis Y movement problem. Lifting the mouse causes the cursor to move downwards, and placing down the mouse causes the cursor to move upwards.

At this point I move from linux to windows, plug in the mouse, install Synapse 2, log in, and Synapse 2 begins updating something; "Do not disconnect any Razer device or shut down your computer until the update is finished." The update moves at glacial speed of 1% per thirteenish seconds. Fantastic. A command prompt window flashes at 85%, then a few seconds later the update immediately jumps to 100%.

At this point the main window of the driver software opens and I can't click anything on it. I can click other windows programs and the taxk bar, but not this. This window doesn't show up in task manager. I close razer synapse through the task tray and reopen it through the start menu. A command prompt flashes when it first opens this time. The window is now interactable and has a task bar entry. I close it and reopen it to see if the command prompt flashes again. It doesn't, there's a login splash screen instead. Apparently the software update was partially incomplete.

The driver software is extremely hard to read because my windows machine is currently running a blurry CRT and a lot of the text is "dark gray on darker gray".

I set the DPI settings and polling rate with little issue.

I mess with the lighting settings and something glitches out and a certain option wouldn't take inputs until I pressed random stuff. Nice.

I go to surface calibration to reduce the LoD because of the previously-mentioned Z-axis problem, and it won't let me do anything until I select a razer mousepad. The liftoff distance setting doesn't work. Nice. I unselect surface calibration.

I unplug the mouse and put it back in my linux system. I check polling rate with evhz. It's 1000hz. "MS Paint test" confirms DPI is also still set to 1000. I press the DPI button five times and it ends up on one of the DPI steps. (I set all the DPI settings to values that aren't contained in the set of default DPI steps.) Oh well.

The mouse is held together by cleverly-shaped plastic and a single screw. I remove the weight. Reconfirmed the sensor is a 3329 and the switches are chinese omrons. I put it back together and add teflon mouse tape.

I switch back to windows and compare it to the KPM FW1.11 in mouse comparator. Top: synapse open. Bottom: synapse closed. Left: tracking test. Right: hammer test. (Note that only the first two or three tracked samples are important/valid in the hammer test, because both mice go moving at random speeds after the immediate strike. The hammer test is used to check for MCU sample buffering and obvious heavy smoothing, and delayed tracking startup behavior but that's rather rare.)

The bottom is labeled "abyssus" but is the abyssus v2. I'm lazy.



Yeah... 2ms behind the kpm with the mouse connected to synapse, and 1ms behind the kpm when the mouse is not. Note that the KPM has a delay (less than 1ms, but still present) relative to the WMO. Note that it's not necessary to uninstall synapse. Just prevent it from running before plugging in the mouse. This means not running synapse on startup if you don't want to replug your mouse after shutting off synapse every morning.

I check the mouse button latency tester.

It has three or five milliseconds more mouse button latency than the KPM FW1.11; the KPM FW1.11 is approximately eight milliseconds faster than the WMO. Movement and liftoff don't seem to affect it.

I'm probably going to keep it and use it despite the minor problems because it's a bit better than my WMO in everything but sensor response, where it's less than 2ms behind.

Summary: Good shape, feels fine. Has a Z-axis bug. Button latency is acceptable but not stellar. Motion samples are delayed by like 1ms for some reason, 2ms with synapse. Prime target for modding, but it has a 3329.

Subjectively, the tracking feels pretty regular, and I like it a lot.
Edited by wareya - 7/23/16 at 12:37pm
post #228 of 423
kpm should be at least 2ms behind wmo...


can someone:
1. figure out the malfunction speed? post a mousetester log too; if there is a lot of smoothing it may be possible to estimate by seeing how sharp the malfunction is
2. post mspaint image of jitter at 5000dpi
Edited by qsxcv - 7/23/16 at 1:33pm
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post #229 of 423
> kpm should be at least 2ms behind wmo...

My WMO at 1000hz is 8ms slower than my KPM FW1.11. I can feel it perceptually too with the audio lag from shooting weapons.

tested it to answer a question in the 1000hz driver thread

This is what the jitter looks like at the highest default DPI (whatever that is): http://i.imgur.com/dZpKthe.png

Malfunction: Not sure what the malfunction speed is but when I put the mouse down on a record player it jitters like crazy for a while and then begins tracking again like this (800dpi not 400dpi): http://i.imgur.com/sXA9RW9.png

That's probably the point where it reaches one frame distance of correlation or something.
Edited by wareya - 7/23/16 at 2:00pm
post #230 of 423
you're trolling me right?
edit: oh. i meant motion latency not button latency.





btw for the first few counts, wmo wins if the previous motion right before was in the same direction, but loses if the previous motion was in the opposite direction. (e.g. compare last 2 images to first two). this means mlt04 has a deadzone quite a bit larger than that of 3310 in the kpm
Edited by qsxcv - 7/23/16 at 3:33pm
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