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[Tech4Gamers] AMD Radeon RX 460 for $99 and the Radeon RX 470 for $149 - Page 39

post #381 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

efficient in what? it is known that AMD's ROPs are stronger than Nvidia's, but at the cost of severe bandwidth dependency.
DCC isn't truly a solution to this problem, workloads aren't 100% compressible, its even severe when a large incompressible chunk suddenly chokes the narrow bus.

NV ROPs are tile based, they work on what fits into the on-chip cache then they swap that out to the VRAM. AMD works pixel by pixel through the image, streaming from/to the VRAM the whole time. There are possible downsides to the NV approach, but efficiency goes way up since you arent hammering the memory bus as often.
Edited by KarathKasun - 8/9/16 at 8:37pm
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post #382 of 470
the downside of tile-based is interruption, as it needs to swap it's workload in between.
this means the ROPs aren't working at full capacity and 100% continuity, but this increases overall throughput.

in a way, tile-based is a lot more logical as even with pixel-by-pixel the ROPs aren't entirely working at full capacity either.
Edited by epic1337 - 8/9/16 at 8:39pm
post #383 of 470
Pixel by pixel also does not scale with a wider bus without adding ROPs or significantly increasing the clock rate of the ROPs. This is probably why the 4096b Fury series gained so much from overclocking the memory.

HBM would probably be better with a "bursty" ROP like the current NV design.
Edited by KarathKasun - 8/9/16 at 8:44pm
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post #384 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Pixel by pixel also does not scale with a wider bus without adding ROPs or significantly increasing the clock rate of the ROPs. This is probably why the 4096b Fury series gained so much from overclocking the memory.

HBM would probably be better with a "bursty" ROP like the current NV design.

Give me 128 ROP + HBM2 Vega.
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post #385 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Give me 128 ROP + HBM2 Vega.

Yes, please.

To maintain the bit/ROP ratio of their GDDR5 cards it would need 512. Although with buffer resizing and optimization 128/256 would be viable. biggrin.gif
Edited by KarathKasun - 8/9/16 at 8:58pm
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post #386 of 470

So i guess I should be looking at the rx 470/480 as a worthwhile upgrade from my hd7790, thanks for the chart!
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post #387 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatun-Bear View Post

A few weeks ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly, but with greater hindsight, especially with respect to the 480, I think it's a little too harsh to call Polaris just Maxwell efficiency two years later. I think the reviews of the cards are the main reasons for your observation, but if we analyse these reviews and the context in which they were made, I think a lot of them are particularly unforgiving on the Polaris GPU.

For example TechPowerUp, a large hardware review site and very well respected. Their performance summary that so many put so much stock in, if you look closely, is based on a relatively small game sample including old games that favour Nvidia hardware (BF3 AND BF4, why both? And Crysis 3) but no DOOM! And certainly not DOOM in Vulkan. This is context that we need to consider. Not only no DOOM, which massively favours Polaris cards, but Hitman not benched in DX12 either. Context. So the performance summary would look very different if you swapped out those 3 old DX11 titles and included newer and DX12 and Vulkan titles. I would argue the new games are more relevant. Also, on the subject of TPU, their power draw figures are way off from other sites and show Polaris particularly unfavourably compared to Pascal.

What is AMD's fault though is being late with drivers so that this poor perception of their cards continues. For example the RotTR drivers last week give a huge 10% boost for the 480 in that game, but they release it weeks after every major site has reviewed the Polaris flagship and drawn performance conclusions about the chip that will stick to it for likely the duration of its lifespan. We have conclusions that AMD are a gen behind with efficiency. It's not quite that bad if you read between the lines. Especially if you look at performance in newer titles.


But does that change the overall image that the RX 480 has GTX 970 class performance and power consumption, but on 14nm instead of 28nm?

And then, of course as we know AMD improves their drivers over time, but we can't forever postpone an opinion based on what we know because it may or may not change tomorrow.

Take this from the TH review of the RX 460 (which also applies to the RX 480 and 470) for example:
Quote:
Gaming power consumption is much lower compared to older graphics cards. The same can't be said for Blu-ray playback and multi-monitor setups, though. Asus' Strix RX 460 lags way behind its competition in those disciplines.

AMD tells us that there's a fix for the high power consumption readings at idle and under partial loads. Unfortunately, it didn’t make it into the latest driver, which we used for these tests.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-460,4707-5.html


When the fix is delivered we can talk again, of course.
 
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post #388 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by EightDee8D View Post

They should increase DCC efficiency more and increase rops to 64 and stick to 256bit, like nvidia.
It's not easy to just "increase DCC efficiency". DCC is lossless, and there's only so much data you can throwaway when you're using lossless compression. You will also run into cases where the information is more or less random and cannot be compressed in a lossless manner. It's not like AMD has a big "JPEG Quality" slider like Photoshop and they can just drop it to "9" from "10" to save bandwidth.

People here just seem to assume AMD's color compression is worse than nvidias, when in reality it could be just as good, if not better.
post #389 of 470
So I'm sorry where are any of the greedy manufacturers selling for the MSRP? I see a couple 460s for 150, the cheapest 470 for 190.
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post #390 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

It's not easy to just "increase DCC efficiency". DCC is lossless, and there's only so much data you can throwaway when you're using lossless compression. You will also run into cases where the information is more or less random and cannot be compressed in a lossless manner. It's not like AMD has a big "JPEG Quality" slider like Photoshop and they can just drop it to "9" from "10" to save bandwidth.

People here just seem to assume AMD's color compression is worse than nvidias, when in reality it could be just as good, if not better.
Look at techreport's reviews, amd's DCC efficiency is pretty low compared to maxwell/paxwell.
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