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[Tech4Gamers] AMD Radeon RX 460 for $99 and the Radeon RX 470 for $149 - Page 46

post #451 of 470
And they did a review/comparison of Doom Nightmare settings - it's really not that impressive.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52122/dooms-nightmare-graphics-setting-requires-insane-5gb-vram/index.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robenger View Post

Are you just quoting yourself? Your despite attempt to make the 3gb version of the 1060 sound relevant is lulzy.

You need to learn the difference between quoting yourself and repeating yourself. I repeated myself because he missed the previous links I posted that reviewed the overclocking capabilities of the GTX1060 3GB, 6GB, RX480, and RX470.

The only thing that is irrelevant is the RX470 which costs above MSRP at a crazy $200-$220 right now. The GTX1060 3GB demolishes the RX470.

The GTX1060 3GB beats the RX470 and RX480 4GB at most benchmarks at 1080p and 1440p. What does that tell you about relevance?

The GTX1060 3GB overclocks better too, consumes 40-60 watts less energy, runs cooler, and is less noisy.

So please, go ahead and attempt to rationalize why the RX470 card at the same price point of the GTX1060 3GB (or a more expensive overpriced RX480 4GB card that runs hot & noisy) is somehow better - go ahead and entertain me.
Edited by Bluescreendeath - 9/30/16 at 10:36am
post #452 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreendeath View Post

And they did a review/comparison of Doom Nightmare settings - it's really not that impressive.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52122/dooms-nightmare-graphics-setting-requires-insane-5gb-vram/index.html
You need to learn the difference between quoting yourself and repeating yourself. I repeated myself because he missed the previous links I posted that reviewed the overclocking capabilities of the GTX1060 3GB, 6GB, RX480, and RX470.

The only thing that is irrelevant is the RX470 which costs above MSRP at a crazy $200-$220 right now. The GTX1060 3GB demolishes the RX470.

The GTX1060 3GB beats the RX470 and RX480 4GB at most benchmarks at 1080p and 1440p. What does that tell you about relevance?

The GTX1060 3GB overclocks better too, consumes 40-60 watts less energy, runs cooler, and is less noisy.

So please, go ahead and attempt to rationalize why the RX470 card at the same price point of the GTX1060 3GB (or a more expensive overpriced RX480 4GB card that runs hot & noisy) is somehow better - go ahead and entertain me.

Considering how everything you posted is from Techpowerup I don't think there is a thing I could say that could change your mind.
post #453 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robenger View Post

Considering how everything you posted is from Techpowerup I don't think there is a thing I could say that could change your mind.

Oh, I had plenty of benchmarks from Techspot too if you were actually paying attention. But I suppose they're all biased/flawed in some way because they don't show the RX400 winning in everything?

In fact, since you have a problem with Techpowerup, here's a Tomshardware, Hexus, and Anadtech review of overclocking GTX1060 6GB and RX480:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-pascal,4679-7.html

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10540/the-geforce-gtx-1060-founders-edition-asus-strix-review/17

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/official-amd-polaris-review-thread-radeon-rx-480-rx-470-and-rx-460.2478626/page-55

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/94969-sapphire-radeon-rx-480-nitro-4gb-8gb-oc/?page=14

Why don't you go read the forums on Anadtech too - everyone have pretty much acknowledged the RX480 are overclocking duds.
Edited by Bluescreendeath - 9/30/16 at 11:01am
post #454 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreendeath View Post

1) You just linked something that isn't even an overclocking review and doesn't have average/minimum fps charts. It's a general review with only 4 games benchmarked focusing on what I assume are frame drops. The RX480 doesn't even win in all of the benches. The RX480 8GB wins most of the time against the GTX1060 3GB in frame drops at higher resolutions/higher textures of course, but it's $40-$50 more here in the US. That's twice the price jump of going from the RX470 to the GTX1060 3GB.

Most other reviews on Techpowerup and Techspot that focuses on a larger variety of games with average/min charts shows the GTX1060 3GB doing pretty well.

2) Doom Nightmare Settings? Mods? Get a GTX1060 6GB. It costs the same as the RX480 8GB. Or get a RX480 if it's not overpriced above MSRP. The GTX1060 3GB is in the same price range as the RX470 and RX480 4GB, not the RX480 8GB.

If the RX470 and GTX1060 3GB are priced at similar levels or ~$20 from each other, Get the GTX1060 3GB. Play at 1080p and have a budget of $200? Get the GTX1060 3GB since RX480 4GBs at the same price point are out of stock/above MSRP & overpriced, and runs hot & noisy.

3) And if you actually want to compare overclocking, take a look at reviews that actually has a section that focuses on overclocking. If you want to actually read about overclocking, then read these links:

The reference RX480 gets a measly 5% core overclock, resulting in a 5% fps gain.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/RX_480/27.html

The AIB RX480 Strix w/ a small factory OC gets a measly 3% core overclock, resulting in a 3% fps gain.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/RX_480_STRIX_OC/26.html

The AIB RX470 Strix gets a 7% core overclock, resulting in a 6.5% fps gain.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/RX_470_STRIX_OC/27.html

The AIB GTX1060 Gaming 3GB gets a 9% boost overclock and 21% memory overclock, resulting in a large 14.5% fps gain.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X_3_GB/29.html

The reference GTX1060 6GB gets a 10% boost overclock, 20% memory overclocking, resulting in a large 14% fps gain.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1060/29.html


So the GTX1060 overclocks much better in increasing the percentage of its base clock, and in terms of real world performance gains, and gets 2-4x more in terms of % fps gain compared to the RX470 and RX480.

Not being monolingual is a Godsend. Re-read the article I posted. Then you might understand it. Google translate ... is terrible, but try to understand it.

I could not care less for the prices in America my boy. The 1060 6GB is 50 euro more than an AIB RX 480.

I do not need your link. I was very specific in how I worded my sentence. TOP clocks. I know the average on air is not in the 480s favour. But most people do not OC nor undervolt so there is that.
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post #455 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcharo View Post

Not being monolingual is a Godsend. Re-read the article I posted. Then you might understand it. Google translate ... is terrible, but try to understand it.

I could not care less for the prices in America my boy. The 1060 6GB is 50 euro more than an AIB RX 480.

I do not need your link. I was very specific in how I worded my sentence. TOP clocks. I know the average on air is not in the 480s favour. But most people do not OC nor undervolt so there is that.

I'm not monolingual either. I just don't read German - not many people on the planet read German. You say Google English Translation sucks...well that's not very helpful is it? Do you have a link with English, or more reviews in English?

You could not care less for prices in America, and I could not care less for prices in your country. It works both ways. But this thread that speculated an MSRP of $150 for the RX470 and $100 for the RX460 uses American prices for a reason. There are probably more of these cards sold in America than in all of Europe combined. AMD and Nvidia are American companies and their primary market is the American consumer. Initial MSRPs that this topic thread mentions were based on speculated American MSRP prices. So when I am comparing the reviews of price vs performance, my use of American prices matters just as much, if not more so, than your use of European prices. I've already acknowledged that my arguments apply to America - and your arguments should be limited to Germany or Europe because of your respective pricing.

As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of reviews in English show the GTX1060 3GB being a far better bang-for-buck than the comparably priced RX470 and a slightly better value than the RX480 4GB. The RX470 fills a small, sad niche of being too expensive for its performance range. If AMD actually used the $150 MSRP as this title suggests, they could've blown Nvidia lower end cards out of the water.

Sure, it's true that most people don't overclock. Most people also don't SLi or Crossfire either. Most people aren't running games with mods that use huge texture packs either. That makes your "MOD" argument just as irrelevant as my overclocking argument.

Do most people care about power consumption and PSU requirements? Do they care about heat and noise? Those are just more factors that tip the balance in GTX1060's favor.
Edited by Bluescreendeath - 9/30/16 at 12:27pm
post #456 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreendeath View Post

And they did a review/comparison of Doom Nightmare settings - it's really not that impressive.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52122/dooms-nightmare-graphics-setting-requires-insane-5gb-vram/index.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robenger View Post

Are you just quoting yourself? Your despite attempt to make the 3gb version of the 1060 sound relevant is lulzy.

You need to learn the difference between quoting yourself and repeating yourself. I repeated myself because he missed the previous links I posted that reviewed the overclocking capabilities of the GTX1060 3GB, 6GB, RX480, and RX470.

The only thing that is irrelevant is the RX470 which costs above MSRP at a crazy $200-$220 right now. The GTX1060 3GB demolishes the RX470.

The GTX1060 3GB beats the RX470 and RX480 4GB at most benchmarks at 1080p and 1440p. What does that tell you about relevance?

The GTX1060 3GB overclocks better too, consumes 40-60 watts less energy, runs cooler, and is less noisy.

So please, go ahead and attempt to rationalize why the RX470 card at the same price point of the GTX1060 3GB (or a more expensive overpriced RX480 4GB card that runs hot & noisy) is somehow better - go ahead and entertain me.
Yes and I also pointed out that the reviews that you posted include both, core overclock as well as memory for the GTX card, but just the core of RX cards. Whats more is that the reviewer did not bother to adjust the powerlimit of those cards which is a well known caveat in the overclocks of polaris is that the card throttles from its specified to not overcome the power limit. If you could give me a overclock comparison of core and memory from people who know what they are doing (I cross check reviewers finds with what people get on forums after on of the reviewer (w1zard) goofed his graphs for the Rx480) ie, forum users, I'd put weight in what you're claiming to be. For now though, you're just trying to show how the RX470 is a bad buy, not why the GTX1060 3GB is a good buy.
post #457 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by huzzug View Post

Yes and I also pointed out that the reviews that you posted include both, core overclock as well as memory for the GTX card, but just the core of RX cards. Whats more is that the reviewer did not bother to adjust the powerlimit of those cards which is a well known caveat in the overclocks of polaris is that the card throttles from its specified to not overcome the power limit. If you could give me a overclock comparison of core and memory from people who know what they are doing (I cross check reviewers finds with what people get on forums after on of the reviewer (w1zard) goofed his graphs for the Rx480) ie, forum users, I'd put weight in what you're claiming to be. For now though, you're just trying to show how the RX470 is a bad buy, not why the GTX1060 3GB is a good buy.

1) The power throttle is a problem in AMD's design of the reference board - the 480 reference cards have a single 6 pin PCIe power connector, so combined with the PCIe slot, it only provide a max of 150 watts. This is not enough when the card actually needs to draw 160-170 watts (and even 180watts in some reviews). So the power limit of reference RX480s is AMD's own fault, not the fault of the reviewers.

2) The 8 pin AIB cards that can provide more juice can certainly help with the power limiters - and plenty of reviews do tinker with the power limiter. But those reviews still don't overclock very much because of core instability. IIRC, they did increase the overclock percentage to around RX470 levels, but the overclock percentage was still nowhere near as good as the GTX1060s. And I believe those reviews also showed the RX480 OCed consuming near 200watts - which is almost double the power consumption of the GTX1060.

3) Well, I actually don't think the GTX1060 3GB is a "good" buy - it's just not a terrible buy like much of the RX400 lineup. In my country, folks should get the 1060 6GB version or RX480 8GB for $40 more. I think the RX470 4GB/8GB are terrible buys in comparison to the 1060-3GB because they are priced at the same level (far above MSRP, which itself was too high). The RX480 4GB reference is cheap and costs the same as the GTX1060-3GB, but not a good buy due to the poor quality of the reference heatsink & power limits, making it noisy, hot, and terrible at OC. So the only options we're left with are AIB RX480s - which are as expensive as the GTX1060 6GBs.

I actually don't even have a GTX1060 3GB, and I wouldn't buy one either. But if I had to choose between the RX470, RX480 4GB reference, or GTX1060 3GB at the same price level of $200 (which is how much they cost on Newegg in the US), then I'll choose the GTX1060 3GB.
post #458 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreendeath View Post

1) The power throttle is a problem in AMD's design of the reference board - the 480 reference cards have a single 6 pin PCIe power connector, so combined with the PCIe slot, it only provide a max of 150 watts. This is not enough when the card actually needs to draw 160-170 watts (and even 180watts in some reviews). So the power limit of reference RX480s is AMD's own fault, not the fault of the reviewers.

2) The 8 pin AIB cards that can provide more juice can certainly help with the power limiters - and plenty of reviews do tinker with the power limiter. But those reviews still don't overclock very much because of core instability. IIRC, they did increase the overclock percentage to around RX470 levels, but the overclock percentage was still nowhere near as good as the GTX1060s. And I believe those reviews also showed the RX480 OCed consuming near 200watts - which is almost double the power consumption of the GTX1060.

3) Well, I actually don't think the GTX1060 3GB is a "good" buy - it's just not a terrible buy like much of the RX400 lineup. In my country, folks should get the 1060 6GB version or RX480 8GB for $40 more. I think the RX470 4GB/8GB are terrible buys in comparison to the 1060-3GB because they are priced at the same level (far above MSRP, which itself was too high). The RX480 4GB reference is cheap and costs the same as the GTX1060-3GB, but not a good buy due to the poor quality of the reference heatsink & power limits, making it noisy, hot, and terrible at OC. So the only options we're left with are AIB RX480s - which are as expensive as the GTX1060 6GBs.

I actually don't even have a GTX1060 3GB, and I wouldn't buy one either. But if I had to choose between the RX470, RX480 4GB reference, or GTX1060 3GB at the same price level of $200 (which is how much they cost on Newegg in the US), then I'll choose the GTX1060 3GB.

Well, if you would do your research...

RX 470's without 8-pin can usually overclock without throwing the PCIe out of spec. They are 4+1 designs with memory and 1/4 of the core on the PCIe, the other 3/4 of the core power is sourced through the 6 pin which is good fro 150w. 1060 overclock percentage is pretty bad as well. At stock they can boost to over 1700 and they only clock to ~2000. RX 470 starts at 1200 and can usually clock up to the high 1300 or low 1400 range, which is about the same as a percentage (15% or so).

With newer API's the RX series does catch up to the 1060/1050 Ti, and blows it away in a few select games. Only time will tell which is better going forward.

1060 3gb shows higher frame time variance than any 4gb card with comparable settings, which is a killer for competitive gaming. There are competitive games out now that can hit 2gb on low texture settings. I also have a feeling that the people that are arguing that 3gb is enough are the same people who said 4gb was not enough.
Edited by KarathKasun - 9/30/16 at 1:00pm
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post #459 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreendeath View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzzug View Post

Yes and I also pointed out that the reviews that you posted include both, core overclock as well as memory for the GTX card, but just the core of RX cards. Whats more is that the reviewer did not bother to adjust the powerlimit of those cards which is a well known caveat in the overclocks of polaris is that the card throttles from its specified to not overcome the power limit. If you could give me a overclock comparison of core and memory from people who know what they are doing (I cross check reviewers finds with what people get on forums after on of the reviewer (w1zard) goofed his graphs for the Rx480) ie, forum users, I'd put weight in what you're claiming to be. For now though, you're just trying to show how the RX470 is a bad buy, not why the GTX1060 3GB is a good buy.

1) The power throttle is a problem in AMD's design of the reference board - the 480 reference cards have a single 6 pin PCIe power connector, so combined with the PCIe slot, it only provide a max of 150 watts. This is not enough when the card actually needs to draw 160-170 watts (and even 180watts in some reviews). So the power limit of reference RX480s is AMD's own fault, not the fault of the reviewers.

2) The 8 pin AIB cards that can provide more juice can certainly help with the power limiters - and plenty of reviews do tinker with the power limiter. But those reviews still don't overclock very much because of core instability. IIRC, they did increase the overclock percentage to around RX470 levels, but the overclock percentage was still nowhere near as good as the GTX1060s. And I believe those reviews also showed the RX480 OCed consuming near 200watts - which is almost double the power consumption of the GTX1060.

3) Well, I actually don't think the GTX1060 3GB is a "good" buy - it's just not a terrible buy like much of the RX400 lineup. In my country, folks should get the 1060 6GB version or RX480 8GB for $40 more. I think the RX470 4GB/8GB are terrible buys in comparison to the 1060-3GB because they are priced at the same level (far above MSRP, which itself was too high). The RX480 4GB reference is cheap and costs the same as the GTX1060-3GB, but not a good buy due to the poor quality of the reference heatsink & power limits, making it noisy, hot, and terrible at OC. So the only options we're left with are AIB RX480s - which are as expensive as the GTX1060 6GBs.

I actually don't even have a GTX1060 3GB, and I wouldn't buy one either. But if I had to choose between the RX470, RX480 4GB reference, or GTX1060 3GB at the same price level of $200 (which is how much they cost on Newegg in the US), then I'll choose the GTX1060 3GB.
1 & 2. Actually all the aib cards suffer from it. There is even a thread about a new BIOS for the 480 (not sure about the 470) that get rid of cards with better board power design, but bad BIOS. On the fone, so I'm afraid you'll have to search, but that shouldn't be a problem and the thread is still active until last few days in AMD sub forum.
3. I've been tracking prices of those cards for last few months in my region as well as the general market around here and the Government X 1060 3GB are expensive for what I want to pay sometimes competing with the RX480 8GB aib cards. The rx480's being expensive for what I paid for the x80 level card a few years back also does not do the rx480 or the GtX 1060 any favors but if I were to get a card now out of those two, the 1060 would be my last of the preferences.
post #460 of 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreendeath View Post

I'm not monolingual either. I just don't read German - not many people on the planet read German. You say Google English Translation sucks...well that's not very helpful is it? Do you have a link with English, or more reviews in English?

You could not care less for prices in America, and I could not care less for prices in your country. It works both ways. But this thread that speculated an MSRP of $150 for the RX470 and $100 for the RX460 uses American prices for a reason. There are probably more of these cards sold in America than in all of Europe combined. AMD and Nvidia are American companies and their primary market is the American consumer. Initial MSRPs that this topic thread mentions were based on speculated American MSRP prices. So when I am comparing the reviews of price vs performance, my use of American prices matters just as much, if not more so, than your use of European prices. I've already acknowledged that my arguments apply to America - and your arguments should be limited to Germany or Europe because of your respective pricing.

As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of reviews in English show the GTX1060 3GB being a far better bang-for-buck than the comparably priced RX470 and a slightly better value than the RX480 4GB. The RX470 fills a small, sad niche of being too expensive for its performance range. If AMD actually used the $150 MSRP as this title suggests, they could've blown Nvidia lower end cards out of the water.

Sure, it's true that most people don't overclock. Most people also don't SLi or Crossfire either.

Do most people care about power consumption and PSU requirements? Do they care about heat and noise? Those are just more factors that tip the balance in GTX1060's favor.

I do not think bilingualism is that much better. 3+ is the minimum these days, the bare minimum.

Unfortunately, it seems that English speaking reviewers do not have the ability to do long term over time GPU analysis or VRAM measurements. For some strange reason it is always on launch day and nothing else that matters. Meanwhile it is left to others to actually do big long term reviews. The site is however saying - stay away from 3GB of VRAM. Same way EN sites used repeatable GTA V benches and forgot that in the real game, rain affects VRAM usage... they just do not go in depth with the actual games...

Call of Duty sells more than WItcher 3 or STALKER and is (sadly) marketed towards Muricans, yet I do not care for it at all. It is junk these days frown.gif . And I am not from Germany.

You are claiming on what should happen, not I:
"Get a GTX1060 6GB. It costs the same as the RX480 8GB."
I do not give such absolutes. However a 3GB GPU is useless less it is very cheap or low end. That is just a fact. Recommend the 6GB GTX 1060, I do that as well. The 3GB one should be avoided at all costs less the person will upgrade for SURE in 1 year. And nothing is certain in this world but death and taxes.

Essentially you are doing some people a disservice with this 3GB nonsense. It is a good thing I did not listen to people like you back in 2009 with my ATI 5770... that is my problem.

"Most people aren't running games with mods that use huge texture packs either. That makes your "MOD" argument just as irrelevant as my overclocking argument."

The problem is that if some people do not care for mods then they do not care for games (since some games are effectively standalone games and/or expansion packs) in the first place. Something most console gamers can not understand for some reason, but I hope you can.

As for the PSU... I don't think 30 watts during gaming really matter even for the choice of PSU. If it were 60 or 80 or more... I could see some logic in that. Heat and Noise are unfortunately tied to how good of a cooler is used and the PCB. For example, even the Power Hog R9 390s with their 230+ watts (for the PCS, more for others) are cool and quiet with the over-engineered coolers they have. Since Nvidia requires less it also gets lesser cooling solutions. But even so these are minute 30 watt differences. Undervolting for advanced users, FRTC for the newbies can do the job.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Tech4Gamers] AMD Radeon RX 460 for $99 and the Radeon RX 470 for $149