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post #2371 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

Sorry, no, this is misinformation. The processing power on these cards is not enough to pull any title that requires 8Gb of VRAM, 6Gb is plenty for single-card systems. For dual GPU - it's still better to sell your card and buy the next tier. NVidia drivers have come a long way in optimizing for Vulkan and Dx12, so no big deal in that regard. There is no reasonable scenario in which a 480 is more future-proof than a 1060 6Gb.
That depends Entirely on the brand.

Buying 4GB RX 480 there is no Point so 8GB is the better option, very titles (old ones also) use more than 5GB Vram. DOOM to Unlock the NightMare Grafics you need more than 5GB Vram, ok that just one amoung others. Only if you like to play Low grafics and see quadratic faces... And i'm not talking on the present, but in the near future. At least for me buiyng a card means think looking or Guess the Future, not the present. 1060 Wins RX 480 for little fp's specially DX 11, new titles for Example Call of Duty : Infinite Warfare 1060 gets no chance agains RX 480. And more will come..

Having 8GB of ram, is the same as you have 16GB of Ram in your computer, not means you will use everything, but if you need you will have them there. So i preffer have 8GB, than 6GB... Since like i told you, most games i play uses more than 5GB, better have more space than stay close to the max.

And for me RX 480 is better bet to buy now than the 1060. CF option, AMD drivers Support, and cards tends to works longer.

Like i said, 1060 for 1 or 2 years of playing, RX for more than that.

That's your opinion, i got mine.
Edited by Xcat2008 - 11/19/16 at 8:00pm
post #2372 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrmind5 View Post

How are the noise and thermals on the 480 compared to the 1060. I've seen the 1060 runs about 5-10 degrees cooler and a bit quieter under load.

Sorry i cannot answer that. I have one RX 480 Reference card.. The Stock Coolers are very bad.. At least to much noise... Better option are the Custom ones.. So i have one aftermarket cooler, Artic Twin Turbo II on my card... Modded my card..

If you buy the RX 480, check this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64VOiNwL5ns
post #2373 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

Sorry, no, this is misinformation. The processing power on these cards is not enough to pull any title that requires 8Gb of VRAM, 6Gb is plenty for single-card systems. For dual GPU - it's still better to sell your card and buy the next tier. NVidia drivers have come a long way in optimizing for Vulkan and Dx12, so no big deal in that regard. There is no reasonable scenario in which a 480 is more future-proof than a 1060 6Gb.

No, that is actually a big missinformation.
- The amount of vram used is not directly correlated to the performance of a gpu. Vram can be filled with very high res textures or preload data that can occupy a lot of space, but they don't imply a big performance hit. In the past, high vram usage was related to high resolutions or mods. But gpus weren't put down for the amount of vram used, but the extra workload related like more pixels or extra shaders rendered. Nowadays, with low level APIs devs have access to the entire gpu and resources can be used properly. Vram can be better used and filled with more stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used.

- RX 480 is more futureproof because it is an AMD card, while the 1060 it isn't as much because it is Nvidia. Both brands have different strategies. AMD tends to produce products with very long lifespan and support. Nvidia designs an architecture and optimize everything around it, but when a new iteration comes, the leave one boat and jump to the other. There are uncountable examples where you take old gpus from AMD and Nvidia that were competitors before, and now the AMDs blow away their Nvidia rivals. Polaris/Pascal aren't that different compared to previous generations to show a different path.
post #2374 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansau View Post

No, that is actually a big missinformation.
- The amount of vram used is not directly correlated to the performance of a gpu. Vram can be filled with very high res textures or preload data that can occupy a lot of space, but they don't imply a big performance hit. In the past, high vram usage was related to high resolutions or mods. But gpus weren't put down for the amount of vram used, but the extra workload related like more pixels or extra shaders rendered. Nowadays, with low level APIs devs have access to the entire gpu and resources can be used properly. Vram can be better used and filled with more stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used.

- RX 480 is more futureproof because it is an AMD card, while the 1060 it isn't as much because it is Nvidia. Both brands have different strategies. AMD tends to produce products with very long lifespan and support. Nvidia designs an architecture and optimize everything around it, but when a new iteration comes, the leave one boat and jump to the other. There are uncountable examples where you take old gpus from AMD and Nvidia that were competitors before, and now the AMDs blow away their Nvidia rivals. Polaris/Pascal aren't that different compared to previous generations to show a different path.

Sorry, but you have wrongly interpreted most of the facts that you stated. Let me explain:

1) TRUE, the amount of VRAM is not directly related to the performance of a GPU.
1) HOWEVER, the amount of VRAM rises proportionally to the rise of standard resolutions. When we had 1Gb GPUs, the most widespread gaming resolution was 1366x768. Then with the rise of 2Gb and 3Gb GPUs, 1080p was established as the standard. Now, with 4Gb, 6Gb and 8Gb options, 1440p and 4K get more and more share each day, compared to 1080p. This implies that the higher amounts of VRAM will mostly be utilized for high res support - every dev wants their game to run @4K on mid-high end hardware. Which means that no, the VRAM will NOT be filled with "more stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used". And let's be honest, nobody that has an 8Gb GPU and a cool monitor will want to use FXAA. Supersampling and downsampling are more common than ever, and that has huge impact on both VRAM and core loads. A balance between the capabilities of VRAM and core performance defines how future-proof a GPU is. Two examples of gross impalance are 1060 3Gb, which has the core for light 4K gaming, and terribly lacks the VRAM to support it, and 480 8Gb, which has the VRAM for serious 4K gaming, but insufficient performance to pump the FPS you'd require.
Also, if the VRAM is filled with "stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used", how would that benefit the user?

2) TRUE, there are examples of AMD cards catching up with formerly superior Nvidia cards.
2) HOWEVER, that is not a rule, it is a fortunate turn of past events. There is no guarantee whatsoever that this trend will continue. Especially since Nvidia now realize they made a mistake in strategy when they neglected Vulkan and Dx12 to optimize for Dx11. It is safe to assume they will (and they already have) reallocate their drivers team efforts to Vulkan and Dx12 optimization, which is the one aspect where AMD had the better overall performance in the initial tests. And with Nvidia's budget, I have no doubt that they will catch up pretty quickly.

3) VR. AMD have offered the superior solution for entry-level current VR tech, and that is awesome, but I bet Nvidia will use their leverage, as they have in the past, to sway support in their favor, just like how they aggressively "helped" gaming studios to use Dx11 tessellation specifically optimized for their cores, with no visual benefit for the gamer, and how they ensured GSync has the upper hand in top-end monitors in the early days of the GSync vs FreeSync battle. I suspect we will see the same thing now with virtual reality, to an extend that will nullify AMD's initial lead.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an AMD fan, and I love my cards, and I want to see them do good on the long run, and I want to see AMD do good as a company. However, putting on pink glasses and believing all is great and will keep being so does not help any of those causes.

Currently IMO 1070 8Gb, 1060 6Gb and 470 4Gb are the most balanced cards on the market. 480 could really use a 6Gb variant, however if 8Gb comes at the price at which 6Gb would have, then it's all dandy. But still, just having 2Gb VRAM more does not magically make it the most future-proof card in the universe that will hold out forever. Remember the 1Gb HD3870? 512Mb HD4870 outlived it by far.
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post #2375 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

Sorry, but you have wrongly interpreted most of the facts that you stated. Let me explain:

1) TRUE, the amount of VRAM is not directly related to the performance of a GPU.
1) HOWEVER, the amount of VRAM rises proportionally to the rise of standard resolutions. When we had 1Gb GPUs, the most widespread gaming resolution was 1366x768. Then with the rise of 2Gb and 3Gb GPUs, 1080p was established as the standard. Now, with 4Gb, 6Gb and 8Gb options, 1440p and 4K get more and more share each day, compared to 1080p. This implies that the higher amounts of VRAM will mostly be utilized for high res support - every dev wants their game to run @4K on mid-high end hardware. Which means that no, the VRAM will NOT be filled with "more stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used". And let's be honest, nobody that has an 8Gb GPU and a cool monitor will want to use FXAA. Supersampling and downsampling are more common than ever, and that has huge impact on both VRAM and core loads. A balance between the capabilities of VRAM and core performance defines how future-proof a GPU is. Two examples of gross impalance are 1060 3Gb, which has the core for light 4K gaming, and terribly lacks the VRAM to support it, and 480 8Gb, which has the VRAM for serious 4K gaming, but insufficient performance to pump the FPS you'd require.
Also, if the VRAM is filled with "stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used", how would that benefit the user?

2) TRUE, there are examples of AMD cards catching up with formerly superior Nvidia cards.
2) HOWEVER, that is not a rule, it is a fortunate turn of past events. There is no guarantee whatsoever that this trend will continue. Especially since Nvidia now realize they made a mistake in strategy when they neglected Vulkan and Dx12 to optimize for Dx11. It is safe to assume they will (and they already have) reallocate their drivers team efforts to Vulkan and Dx12 optimization, which is the one aspect where AMD had the better overall performance in the initial tests. And with Nvidia's budget, I have no doubt that they will catch up pretty quickly.

3) VR. AMD have offered the superior solution for entry-level current VR tech, and that is awesome, but I bet Nvidia will use their leverage, as they have in the past, to sway support in their favor, just like how they aggressively "helped" gaming studios to use Dx11 tessellation specifically optimized for their cores, with no visual benefit for the gamer, and how they ensured GSync has the upper hand in top-end monitors in the early days of the GSync vs FreeSync battle. I suspect we will see the same thing now with virtual reality, to an extend that will nullify AMD's initial lead.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an AMD fan, and I love my cards, and I want to see them do good on the long run, and I want to see AMD do good as a company. However, putting on pink glasses and believing all is great and will keep being so does not help any of those causes.

Currently IMO 1070 8Gb, 1060 6Gb and 470 4Gb are the most balanced cards on the market. 480 could really use a 6Gb variant, however if 8Gb comes at the price at which 6Gb would have, then it's all dandy. But still, just having 2Gb VRAM more does not magically make it the most future-proof card in the universe that will hold out forever. Remember the 1Gb HD3870? 512Mb HD4870 outlived it by far.




DAAAMN i really was thinking all of this since in /g forums on 4chan they were discussing about the 7000 Radeon series kicking some 600-700 Nvidia series only by the pass of time, that AMD drivers make them run faster than the actual cards they were competing with on the Nvidia side, they were posting a lot of graphs about this, and many of them were disprove or proved fake, i was really into it reading all the comments since most of the times wise people would step in and make a really logical and rational comment about it, the thing is that Nvidia may had the edge cause they optimized most of thier Architectures to make the most use of DX11 serial features and that they had a better multi threaded driver, which it may help on some games that by using more the multi core cpu i supposed, and AMD was investing on a totally different architecture that was underutilized in DX11 and thats why in most games AMD is below Nvidia, the thing is that ¿is it logical to say that Nvidia really abandons any old architecture and that AMD keeps enhancing old ones via drivers? i am curious to know some opinions, and about the VRAM you sure hit the spot on that one, there was a time when i was way younger i used to think that more VRAM was more power, when i start to read about the ROP's the TMU's And all the other internal components of a GPU i was really amazed on how little i did know about GPU's, i a glad i joined to this awesome forum it's been so little and i am already learning lots of stuff!!! thumb.gif
     
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post #2376 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

Sorry, but you have wrongly interpreted most of the facts that you stated. Let me explain:

1) TRUE, the amount of VRAM is not directly related to the performance of a GPU.
1) HOWEVER, the amount of VRAM rises proportionally to the rise of standard resolutions. When we had 1Gb GPUs, the most widespread gaming resolution was 1366x768. Then with the rise of 2Gb and 3Gb GPUs, 1080p was established as the standard. Now, with 4Gb, 6Gb and 8Gb options, 1440p and 4K get more and more share each day, compared to 1080p. This implies that the higher amounts of VRAM will mostly be utilized for high res support - every dev wants their game to run @4K on mid-high end hardware. Which means that no, the VRAM will NOT be filled with "more stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used". And let's be honest, nobody that has an 8Gb GPU and a cool monitor will want to use FXAA. Supersampling and downsampling are more common than ever, and that has huge impact on both VRAM and core loads. A balance between the capabilities of VRAM and core performance defines how future-proof a GPU is. Two examples of gross impalance are 1060 3Gb, which has the core for light 4K gaming, and terribly lacks the VRAM to support it, and 480 8Gb, which has the VRAM for serious 4K gaming, but insufficient performance to pump the FPS you'd require.
Also, if the VRAM is filled with "stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used", how would that benefit the user?

2) TRUE, there are examples of AMD cards catching up with formerly superior Nvidia cards.
2) HOWEVER, that is not a rule, it is a fortunate turn of past events. There is no guarantee whatsoever that this trend will continue. Especially since Nvidia now realize they made a mistake in strategy when they neglected Vulkan and Dx12 to optimize for Dx11. It is safe to assume they will (and they already have) reallocate their drivers team efforts to Vulkan and Dx12 optimization, which is the one aspect where AMD had the better overall performance in the initial tests. And with Nvidia's budget, I have no doubt that they will catch up pretty quickly.

3) VR. AMD have offered the superior solution for entry-level current VR tech, and that is awesome, but I bet Nvidia will use their leverage, as they have in the past, to sway support in their favor, just like how they aggressively "helped" gaming studios to use Dx11 tessellation specifically optimized for their cores, with no visual benefit for the gamer, and how they ensured GSync has the upper hand in top-end monitors in the early days of the GSync vs FreeSync battle. I suspect we will see the same thing now with virtual reality, to an extend that will nullify AMD's initial lead.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an AMD fan, and I love my cards, and I want to see them do good on the long run, and I want to see AMD do good as a company. However, putting on pink glasses and believing all is great and will keep being so does not help any of those causes.

Currently IMO 1070 8Gb, 1060 6Gb and 470 4Gb are the most balanced cards on the market. 480 could really use a 6Gb variant, however if 8Gb comes at the price at which 6Gb would have, then it's all dandy. But still, just having 2Gb VRAM more does not magically make it the most future-proof card in the universe that will hold out forever. Remember the 1Gb HD3870? 512Mb HD4870 outlived it by far.




DAAAMN i really was thinking all of this since in /g forums on 4chan they were discussing about the 7000 Radeon series kicking some 600-700 Nvidia series only by the pass of time, that AMD drivers make them run faster than the actual cards they were competing with on the Nvidia side, they were posting a lot of graphs about this, and many of them were disprove or proved fake, i was really into it reading all the comments since most of the times wise people would step in and make a really logical and rational comment about it, the thing is that Nvidia may had the edge cause they optimized most of thier Architectures to make the most use of DX11 serial features and that they had a better multi threaded driver, which it may help on some games that by using more the multi core cpu i supposed, and AMD was investing on a totally different architecture that was underutilized in DX11 and thats why in most games AMD is below Nvidia, the thing is that ¿is it logical to say that Nvidia really abandons any old architecture and that AMD keeps enhancing old ones via drivers? i am curious to know some opinions, and about the VRAM you sure hit the spot on that one, there was a time when i was way younger i used to think that more VRAM was more power, when i start to read about the ROP's the TMU's And all the other internal components of a GPU i was really amazed on how little i did know about GPU's, i a glad i joined to this awesome forum it's been so little and i am already learning lots of stuff!!! thumb.gif
     
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post #2377 of 4152
Is there a RX 480 out there with an 8pin power connector that also fits current waterblocks?
post #2378 of 4152
XFX GTR and HIS Roaring use a very similar pcb layout as the reference model. But they have capacitors from auxiliary and memory vrms on the right side that I think interfere with the right side of 480 reference waterblocks, as they cover the entire pcb from the reference that has around an extra gddr5 space, while it isn't in GTR/Roaring.





So I think there isn't.
Edited by Ansau - 11/20/16 at 1:30pm
post #2379 of 4152
Hey Radeon RX480/470/460 owners,

We are having our monthly Foldathon from Monday 21st - 23rd 12noon EST.
Would you consider putting all that power to a good cause for those 2 days? If so, come sign up and fold with us - see attached link.

November Foldathon



To get started:

1.Get a passkey (allows for speed bonus) - need a valid email address
http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/getpasskey.py


2.Download the folding program:
http://folding.stanford.edu/


Enter your folding name (mine is the same as my OCN name)
Enter your passkey
Enter Team OCN number - 37726


later
lanofsong
post #2380 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

Sorry, but you have wrongly interpreted most of the facts that you stated. Let me explain:

1) TRUE, the amount of VRAM is not directly related to the performance of a GPU.
1) HOWEVER, the amount of VRAM rises proportionally to the rise of standard resolutions. When we had 1Gb GPUs, the most widespread gaming resolution was 1366x768. Then with the rise of 2Gb and 3Gb GPUs, 1080p was established as the standard. Now, with 4Gb, 6Gb and 8Gb options, 1440p and 4K get more and more share each day, compared to 1080p. This implies that the higher amounts of VRAM will mostly be utilized for high res support - every dev wants their game to run @4K on mid-high end hardware. Which means that no, the VRAM will NOT be filled with "more stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used". And let's be honest, nobody that has an 8Gb GPU and a cool monitor will want to use FXAA. Supersampling and downsampling are more common than ever, and that has huge impact on both VRAM and core loads. A balance between the capabilities of VRAM and core performance defines how future-proof a GPU is. Two examples of gross impalance are 1060 3Gb, which has the core for light 4K gaming, and terribly lacks the VRAM to support it, and 480 8Gb, which has the VRAM for serious 4K gaming, but insufficient performance to pump the FPS you'd require.
Also, if the VRAM is filled with "stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be used", how would that benefit the user?


Screen resolution has negligible VRAM impact (1920x1080x32bpp = ~8mb per buffer, 16mb for double buffered, 20mb double buffered with 32b Z-Buffer). Shadow buffers, textures, geometry, compute buffers, and so on all require more VRAM than screen resolution... by a multiple of 10 to 40. GPGPU, better texture resolution, more texture layers, and better geometry/higher polygon count are why games use more VRAM now.

Those old cards were primarily limited to lower resolutions because of very poor ROP throughput and poor memory bandwidth. You could even get a GT 430 with 4gb of frame buffer, not that it helped in the slightest because it would take 100+ms (16ms gets you ~60FPS, 100ms is 10FPS) just to stream through the whole 4gb. The bandwidth was just terrible on that card.

Keeping things in VRAM, even if not used often, will keep the application/driver from having to page things out to system memory or even the HDD in some instances. Momentary hitching is an indicator of this happening, and it is not fun to live with if it is happening every 30 seconds. This is doubly true for VR.

So you need enough GPU power to use all of your memory bandwidth, you need enough bandwidth to stream the total content of your memory at 30-60FPS, and you need enough memory capacity to hold the assets of the games the GPU is powerful enough to play. RX 480 8GB falls into this description fairly well. The 4GB card has a small number of cases where it produces inconsistent frame times at ultra settings. Pointing to 4GB not being enough for a few current titles with settings cranked @ 1080p. It has the bandwidth to stream 8gb of data at ~30FPS. GPU power is on the low side for its bandwidth, but it is still in the acceptable range (1070 with similar bandwidth performs better, possibly due to better bandwidth/resource management from tiled internal rendering).
Edited by KarathKasun - 11/20/16 at 10:40pm
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ViewSonic VX-2257-8 Chinese backlit mechanical Kingwin 850w Chinese laser optical 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon 5350 Asus AM1I-A EVGA GTX 750 Ti SC 2x4GB DDR 3 1333 
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μRyzen
(12 items)
 
Mini Box
(4 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R5 1400 MSI B350M Gaming Pro Zotac GTX 670 4GB G.SKILL FORTIS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
WD Green 3tb Wraith Stealth Windows 10 Debian 8.7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
ViewSonic VX-2257-8 Chinese backlit mechanical Kingwin 850w Chinese laser optical 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon 5350 Asus AM1I-A EVGA GTX 750 Ti SC 2x4GB DDR 3 1333 
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