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[Official] Polaris Owners Club - Page 10

post #91 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

They had more than 5 for the cheapest Gainward $249 card, for like an hour, showed more than 5, but then it was gone. The more expensive are still stock but no one wants those $300+ versions.

I was exaggerating, but my point still stands, everyone knows Nvidia rushed this asap to beat the AIB 480 cards even though they have little stock to back up the demand for the 1060.
post #92 of 4133
Some reviews i've read are quite disappointing, i mean guru3d - testing doom in open GL ??? i won't comment further on that , people will see it for what it is. I saw that and didn't even bother reading the conclusion.

Toms testing ROTR in dx11 vs dx12, really ??

HardOCP - now heres a site that i did not pick a fair review from , but wow have a read of that review then read the forums i can sum it up by saying DX12/Vulkan = AMD win . 1440p AMD win. Just can't figure that Kyle out , love / hate relationship with AMD. Also no reward for the FE card, the 480 got a silver award atleast lol. Going to be interesting once AIB vs AIB reviews come out , real battle begins in this price bracket.

So far DX12/vulkan are stronger on 480 than 1060 . Once the AIBs hit i think another 5-10% gain in AMDs favour due to the OC actually being sustained - actually just sustaining the boost clock will help. The FE although overpriced is able to boost quite high so there's little gains to be had from non ref there. At $299 i doubt they will sell well. At $249 i'm not sure if you can find them.

To me its the 680 vs 7970 all over again. The larger more power hungry 7970 eventually destroyed the 680 but not on review day , it took a while. Guess you could say the say of the 290x too. Here we have the larger more power hungry 480 besting the 1060 in DX12 (depending on the title its slim) and caining in Vulkan doom but loosing finesse in some dx11 games . Over time my pick is 480 picks up against the 1060 overall. History will repeat itself here.
Edited by Orthello - 7/19/16 at 12:01pm
post #93 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orthello View Post

Some reviews i've read are quite disappointing, i mean guru3d - testing doom in open GL ??? i won't comment further on that , people will see it for what it is. I saw that and didn't even bother reading the conclusion.

Toms testing ROTR in dx11 vs dx12, really ??

HardOCP - now heres a site that i did not pick a fair review from , but wow have a read of that review then read the forums i can sum it up by saying DX12/Vulkan = AMD win . 1440p AMD win. Just can't figure that Kyle out , love / hate relationship with AMD. Also no reward for the FE card, the 480 got a silver award atleast lol. Going to be interesting once AIB vs AIB reviews come out , real battle begins in this price bracket.

So far DX12/vulkan are stronger on 480 than 1060 . Once the AIBs hit i think another 5-10% gain in AMDs favour due to the OC
.


i'm with you on that one...worse is that AMD has 2 driver updates...for the Rx 480, and a lot of reviews don,t test with the latest drivers...
no doubt if you want a midrange future proof card , thats is going to gain more with time the Rx 480 is the way to go...

sometimes I question why amd keeps dropping the ball so much with little details that could be a performance advantage for them, example
users undervolting the card , have better performance and better clocks, the Rx could of come factory clocked and undervolted 1300mhz core with no throtling and better mem performance.
this site is full of technical welth if you know were to look, users just changing to a better thermal paste getting 6-8 C change in temp, wonder why AMD does not look for better components for the reference card...better thermal pad, paste etc...better people for testing cards ( gpu draw for pci, undervolting test etc) , AMD is doing well in sales right know...with better atention to details..could be better...
I'll wait for a few weeks before I pull the plug for a 4gb version with a custom vga cooler ( might go for the gelid icy) and better thermal paste and pad...
post #94 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjacob View Post

i'm with you on that one...worse is that AMD has 2 driver updates...for the Rx 480, and a lot of reviews don,t test with the latest drivers...
no doubt if you want a midrange future proof card , thats is going to gain more with time the Rx 480 is the way to go...

sometimes I question why amd keeps dropping the ball so much with little details that could be a performance advantage for them, example
users undervolting the card , have better performance and better clocks, the Rx could of come factory clocked and undervolted 1300mhz core with no throtling and better mem performance.
this site is full of technical welth if you know were to look, users just changing to a better thermal paste getting 6-8 C change in temp, wonder why AMD does not look for better components for the reference card...better thermal pad, paste etc...better people for testing cards ( gpu draw for pci, undervolting test etc) , AMD is doing well in sales right know...with better atention to details..could be better...
I'll wait for a few weeks before I pull the plug for a 4gb version with a custom vga cooler ( might go for the gelid icy) and better thermal paste and pad...

I think the issue is polish , the real lack of it on the AMD 480 ref card.

Its a diamond in the rough , you have to tweak it to get it performing right. The ref 1060 on the other hand is polished. That 6-7% most reviewers tout as the average increase over the 480 ( if you include all the dx11 titles it takes to get that advantage ) could easily have been wiped out by solving the 480 throttling issue day 1 on the 480 . I mean just look at the leaks of the strix AIB 480 . Its ~ 20% faster in 4k , 15% faster in 1440p over ref with only a 5% clock advantage over the target default boost rate of a ref 480. That's insane !!! 10-15% actual performance increase more than the AIB clock rate improvement. It comes from stabilizing the boost clock. I knew the 4k result would end up like that after seeing reviews of the ref card throttling below 1100mhz in 4k. Also it can be overclocked further !! So i would say max OC on AIB cards like the strix 15-20% above ref 480 performance.

I guess if you have a good ref card and undervolt + power target increase you can get near that anyhow now , but it will be easier on the AIBs.

Looking forward to the reviews of the 480 AIBs .. they will go head to head with the 1060 AIBs and max OC vs mac OC i think you will see 480 on par in dx11 on average of games. dx12 a solid win for amd . In vulkan doom there will be no comparison.
post #95 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orthello View Post

Some reviews i've read are quite disappointing, i mean guru3d - testing doom in open GL ??? i won't comment further on that , people will see it for what it is. I saw that and didn't even bother reading the conclusion.

Toms testing ROTR in dx11 vs dx12, really ??

HardOCP - now heres a site that i did not pick a fair review from , but wow have a read of that review then read the forums i can sum it up by saying DX12/Vulkan = AMD win . 1440p AMD win. Just can't figure that Kyle out , love / hate relationship with AMD. Also no reward for the FE card, the 480 got a silver award atleast lol. Going to be interesting once AIB vs AIB reviews come out , real battle begins in this price bracket.

So far DX12/vulkan are stronger on 480 than 1060 . Once the AIBs hit i think another 5-10% gain in AMDs favour due to the OC actually being sustained - actually just sustaining the boost clock will help. The FE although overpriced is able to boost quite high so there's little gains to be had from non ref there. At $299 i doubt they will sell well. At $249 i'm not sure if you can find them.

To me its the 680 vs 7970 all over again. The larger more power hungry 7970 eventually destroyed the 680 but not on review day , it took a while. Guess you could say the say of the 290x too. Here we have the larger more power hungry 480 besting the 1060 in DX12 (depending on the title its slim) and caining in Vulkan doom but loosing finesse in some dx11 games . Over time my pick is 480 picks up against the 1060 overall. History will repeat itself here.

The $249 1060s were available here in stock and are on preorder now. Unlike 480s that go cheapest around $254 instead of $239 a rip off because of distributors and shops, maybe they see aaah 8GB VRAM bam higher pricing there we go or AMD didn't stomp on them for gauging/hiking the price.
480 with proper cooling and holding boost clock will be better after 2 years but then you are going to upgrade again anyway so what's the point... the thing that older AMD cards are better than older NV cards is useless since one buys a new card after 2+ years anyway as the performance goes to hell on new titles being more demanding.
While the 480 has better features in it's architecture it simply doesn't deliver the Pascal like performance and efficiency frown.gif

On top of that even custom XFX DD fan 480 can't hold 1328MHz without raised power limit in Wattman.

The lack of any stock of Pascal cards is a true issue though. They launch with only a few pieces and then wait, restock couple cards, gone again, wait ...
480s no problem, stock all the time here and in Germany where they aren't overpriced and sell at higher rate than 1070s per week.

Where is the ASUS 480 leak?
Edited by JackCY - 7/19/16 at 1:15pm
post #96 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

The $249 1060s were available here in stock and are on preorder now. Unlike 480s that go cheapest around $254 instead of $239 a rip off because of distributors and shops, maybe they see aaah 8GB VRAM bam higher pricing there we go or AMD didn't stomp on them for gauging/hiking the price.
480 with proper cooling and holding boost clock will be better after 2 years but then you are going to upgrade again anyway so what's the point... the thing that older AMD cards are better than older NV cards is useless since one buys a new card after 2+ years anyway as the performance goes to hell on new titles being more demanding.
While the 480 has better features in it's architecture it simply doesn't deliver the Pascal like performance and efficiency frown.gif

On top of that even custom XFX DD fan 480 can't hold 1328MHz without raised power limit in Wattman.

The lack of any stock of Pascal cards is a true issue though. They launch with only a few pieces and then wait, restock couple cards, gone again, wait ...
480s no problem, stock all the time here and in Germany where they aren't overpriced and sell at higher rate than 1070s per week.

What is the issue with raising the power limit? Who cares if it draws more power? It's not like the 5870/GTX 480 when power was really an issue. Even most OEM PCs come with a 550w power supply as standard.
 
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Intel Celeron J1800 QNAP Proprietary  Intel HD Graphics Crucial 8GB Kit 
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Media Server
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4770K MSI Z97S Krait XFX RX 480 Black Edition XFX RX 480 Black Edition 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
G.Skill Trident X 2666mhz Intel 530 Sandisk Extreme Pro LG WH14NS40 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG WH16NS40 Noctua NH-D14 Win 10 64-Bit BenQ XL2730Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Seasonic Platinum 1000w Fractal Design R5 Zowie FK1+ 
Mouse PadOtherOther
XTrac Ripper XXL  4 x Vardar F-4 120mm (2x NH-D14, 2x Bottom Intake) 3 x Vardar F-3 140mm Intake (two front, one side) 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Celeron J1800 QNAP Proprietary  Intel HD Graphics Crucial 8GB Kit 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
4TB Western Digital Red Pro 4TB Western Digital Red Pro 4TB Western Digital Red Pro 4TB Western Digital Red Pro 
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post #97 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

The $249 1060s were available here in stock and are on preorder now. Unlike 480s that go cheapest around $254 instead of $239 a rip off because of distributors and shops, maybe they see aaah 8GB VRAM bam higher pricing there we go or AMD didn't stomp on them for gauging/hiking the price.
480 with proper cooling and holding boost clock will be better after 2 years but then you are going to upgrade again anyway so what's the point... the thing that older AMD cards are better than older NV cards is useless since one buys a new card after 2+ years anyway as the performance goes to hell on new titles being more demanding.
While the 480 has better features in it's architecture it simply doesn't deliver the Pascal like performance and efficiency frown.gif

On top of that even custom XFX DD fan 480 can't hold 1328MHz without raised power limit in Wattman.

Well depends what country you are in i guess. I checked this morning , NZD ref 480 here for 500-530. Strix 1060 $640 , its a big step up in price. I dont think NV or AMD have any real control over price gauging and agree it depends where you are and who you are buying from.

I disagree about the 2yr thing, its happening now . Games are getting patched in vulkan, patched in dx12 .. and it will continue. If you are buying a card now, unless its a stop gap you will be thinking about new api support and what that's going to bring. If you were rocking a 290x back in the 780 days who would have thought that card would have been competitive against a 980 now in dx12 .. but it is. YOu can upgrade more often if you like, but you just make nvidia richer and yourself poorer.

Pascal has the efficiency , but we are talking a ~ 35 watt difference , i mean its a long bow to draw if you talk power costs in real world terms, even heating (35watt extra heat ?) , even PSU demands. Its quite paltry really. In vulkan you get every frame per watt anyhow. AMD also has a strong history of improving performance per watt on their gpus over time. 7970 / 290x .. etc. There will be arguments over 10watts in the next gen but by then i hope most see the sense in doing so as been a non issue in real world importance.

The AIB 480s will sort out the performance quite a bit , have a look at the strix 480 details from asus . I look forward to those reviews.
post #98 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post


Where is the ASUS 480 leak?

http://videocardz.com/62392/asus-shows-off-radeon-rx-480-strix-and-rx-480-dual
post #99 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagle3092 View Post

What is the issue with raising the power limit? Who cares if it draws more power? It's not like the 5870/GTX 480 when power was really an issue. Even most OEM PCs come with a 550w power supply as standard.
Because 135W vs 165W, is 30W and it shows up on your powerbill. So factoring that into buying decision you might as well buy a better more efficient card for the same money in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orthello View Post

Well depends what country you are in i guess. I checked this morning , NZD ref 480 here for 500-530. Strix 1060 $640 , its a big step up in price. I dont think NV or AMD have any real control over price gauging and agree it depends where you are and who you are buying from.

I disagree about the 2yr thing, its happening now . Games are getting patched in vulkan, patched in dx12 .. and it will continue. If you are buying a card now, unless its a stop gap you will be thinking about new api support and what that's going to bring. If you were rocking a 290x back in the 780 days who would have thought that card would have been competitive against a 980 now in dx12 .. but it is. YOu can upgrade more often if you like, but you just make nvidia richer and yourself poorer.

Pascal has the efficiency , but we are talking a ~ 35 watt difference , i mean its a long bow to draw if you talk power costs in real world terms, even heating (35watt extra heat ?) , even PSU demands. Its quite paltry really. In vulkan you get every frame per watt anyhow. AMD also has a strong history of improving performance per watt on their gpus over time. 7970 / 290x .. etc. There will be arguments over 10watts in the next gen but by then i hope most see the sense in doing so as been a non issue in real world importance.

The AIB 480s will sort out the performance quite a bit , have a look at the strix 480 details from asus . I look forward to those reviews.
I hope the low level APIs do get used more and properly but so far it has already been years and it goes very slow. AMD beat everyone with Mantle low level API but almost no one used it, while it pushed M$ to make DX12 and gave birth to other low level APIs such as LiquidVR and Vulkan none of these are used even in Q2 2016 much.
It sure would help AMD tons if the low level APIs were used properly and had a code path that is optimized for GCN instead of reusing the dirty tricks from DX11/OGL that the weird/poor NV architecture requires to not be slow. NV simply has the market locked including developers by supporting them so they make stuff optimized for NV.

AMD is still 1 generation behind in power efficiency, simply because they do not update their architecture as often as Nvidia due to lower R&D budget.
I meant independent tongue.gif I never trust numbers from manufacturers, they always show the best numbers they can to make their product look good.
Like PCGH showed XFX DD 480 in a preview. Which doesn't hold boost clock without power limit increase.
post #100 of 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Because 135W vs 165W, is 30W and it shows up on your powerbill. .

Lets put some numbers around it , here electricity is 0.28 NZD per KWH.

Say i game 15 hrs a week - which might be high or low for some. So 60 hrs per month. I going to assume idling difference is so low its not worth working out , its generally substantially lower than gaming so i'll just go by full load power usage.

60 * 0.030 * 0.28 = 0.504 NZD. So you are talking 50 cents per month NZD , without getting the exact conversion its likely ~ 35 cents usd per month difference. If you make your mind up based on that paying up to $50 usd more for GTX1060 vs 480 , you will never recover the difference.

As for seeing this on your power bill eg 35 cents been significant ? will you ? i doubt it.
Edited by Orthello - 7/19/16 at 2:03pm
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