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[TweakTown]NVIDIA culls GeForce GTX 1060 3GB, will arrive as GTX 1050 in December - Page 3

post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post
 

They don't have to care about value as long as people keep buying Nvidia just because it's green.

 

It's funny to have experience with the different strata of CPU/GPU performance and see people make definitive statements on X or Y brand being the bestest and the fastest and the strongest, because product Z. Nowhere was this more obvious than with the 980 Ti. Great card, super-strong, did nothing to improve the performance of other Nvidia cards, but because that card has the 'performance crown' all Nvidia cards become "objectively superior".

 

The GPU realm has been far more competitive technologically than many like to admit, and now Vulkan and DX12 are giving us a taste of what AMD's architectural choices are capable of. As has become typical for the *60/*50, the 1060 and 1050 look to be largely lacklustre and yet once again the performance of the 1080 will be used as a rationale for the 1060's superiority over Polaris. We'll trot out the DX11 games to show how they perform similarly to Polaris, and how the 1060 might even lead the 480 a bit. We'll ignore games with new API's because they're all benchmarks. The 1050 and 1060 will sell and two years from now those card-owners will complain about being surpassed by a 260x or something.

 

     
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post #22 of 33
This card will definitely beat 480 in sales (if even 960 managed then this surely will, being vastly better than 960)

980 level perf will be like a magnet to ppl
Edited by ChevChelios - 7/13/16 at 11:43pm
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post #23 of 33
Gonna be very tight in 200 and sub 200$ price range in terms of performance. RX 470 is not much slower than 480 on paper. smile.gif
post #24 of 33
Doesn't this just bring Nvidia into price parity with AMD?

I think it would be far fetched to say they ever had any plans of selling a 3GB 1060 for more than an 8GB 480. Maybe they were caught off by how aggressive AMD's pricing is, but I seriously doubt Nvidia ever planned on charging 25% more for something that's roughly equivalent.
post #25 of 33
December is fine because GTX950 and 960 are still selling really well.These two cards will compete with RX470 and win(in sales),then in December we will get 1050 for $199 which will be faster than RX470 at way under 100W. Makes sense.Meanwhile RX460 will keep losing to GTX950 and 960 as well.Good plan by Nvidia.
    
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post #26 of 33
I would not be so sure about 1050 winning with rx 470. 149$ is a great price, i dont see how 50$ more would help if performance will be the same (+- 10% depending on game),
post #27 of 33
I doubt they were planning to release a 3GB version of the 1060.
Seems that the so called "leaks" and "rumours" miss understood a 1050 3GB as a so called 1060 3GB version.
It just doesn't makes sense from nvidia to bring a 980 performing card with only 3GB memory.
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post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

I doubt they were planning to release a 3GB version of the 1060.
Seems that the so called "leaks" and "rumours" miss understood a 1050 3GB as a so called 1060 3GB version.
It just doesn't makes sense from nvidia to bring a 980 performing card with only 3GB memory.

 

I would wager you're correct on that. I'm interested to see what the 1050 is like, mostly out of curiosity but if it can provide a better HTPC solution in terms of perf/watt than a 460, I'll definitely have to consider it.

     
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post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

Doesn't this just bring Nvidia into price parity with AMD?

I think it would be far fetched to say they ever had any plans of selling a 3GB 1060 for more than an 8GB 480. Maybe they were caught off by how aggressive AMD's pricing is, but I seriously doubt Nvidia ever planned on charging 25% more for something that's roughly equivalent.

AMD was just as if not more caught guard by Nvidia announcing the gtx 1070 was supposedly 379 dollar card. Considering the 1070 is 50% faster, 240 dollar pricing is just about right considering more performance usually has worse performance per dollar and Nvidia has the better branding.

What shows you that AMD didn't really intend to price this card so low to begin with was the build quality of the card and the low quantity of cards in terms of replenishing stock.

AMD considering the cards are sold out had no reason to charge 240 for the cards, but to get positive press in reviews vs the 1070, they had to price them this low. The marketing value was more important than the short term profits because if this card sold at 300 dollars, it would have been a dud because the 1070 is too much faster for the extra money. Because it's a full die, the rx 480 is going to have stock issues for a while if demand continues. I could see this card being profitable for AMD if this was the cut down variant, but because it's the full variant for this price, it's going to not be really a profitable chip for AMD. It will gain them marketshare but their profits from the card are going to be abysmal. Looking at the gross margins of both companies, there isn't enough wiggle room for AMD to be very profitable with the rx 480's pricing. The cost of the 1070 and rx 480 should be similar because of their cost to make, but they are not. And adding in the 140 difference in price and Nvidia's gross margins overall for the company, if the 1070 is making a 50% margin(their overall is 58 which is inflated by high priced pro, car, data center, titans and full fat dies), their isn't much room for AMD

E.g if it cost Nvidia 100 dollars to produce a 1070chip, 100 dollar markup + 66 board cost + $20 for 4gb of extra memory. $10 packaging + 15% partner margin + 10% retailer markup = 375 with the left over cost for logistics

Without the 100 dollar mark up, the cost is 248.

80 dollar chip cost + 66 board cost(this should be a tad higher than Nvidias) + 20 dollars for extra memory + 10packaging + 15% + 10% = $222 This left over amount is the amount of wiggle room AMD has for profit which is dilute by the partners cut.

If you think these costs are too high, you have to take into account Nvidia's pricing. If you think AMD chip cost is too much and overestimated and it should be lower, it would automatically lower the cost of the 1070 chip and basically margins on the 1070 chip would be 65-75% range which considering its actually a good value in Nvidia's lineup, is way too high of a margin to be possible. The thing is however, the 1070 and the rx 480 have likely a very similar cost to make. The PCB on the rx 480 is higher quality, the bus is the same and so is the memory. .Although they are different in die size, the 1070 is so cut down, that their cost is likely similar since the rx 480 requires a full die. The 1070 may have a more expensive cooler, but the ones with this cooler cost 450 dollars.

Minus logistics and AMD is making very low margins, that are console like, but without the console volume to make up for it. Also the R and D for the console chips was covered by Sony and MS.

Also considering finfets costs over 28nm planar, AMD should be charging more for their products vs 28nm but they are not.

In terms of economics, you always price products where price will meet demand so that you maximize profit. Besides the initial launch supply, supply has been bad. What this means is AMD should have charged a higher price. It's why Nvidia tacked on their initial founders edition bullcrap, because they knew quantities of the 10xx series was initially going to be bad. The problem for AMD from an economics perspective, 240 is a bad price, but from a marketing perspective, it's a good price. AMD had to pick one or the other and since AMD needs a boost to the AMD brand for Moral, it picked marketing.

Overall both companies because of competition exert pressure which is good for the consumer. Although greedy on their uncut chips, there are cards in Nvidia's lineup that force AMD to price their products low.
post #30 of 33
I fail to see why you are comparing the 480 to the 1070. They are not in the same performance or price bracket.
Compare the 480 to the 1060 for a more even comparison of market segment the two products have been aimed at, in both price and performance.
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