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post #131 of 772
Anyone who claimed Pascal 'can't do async' wasn't paying attention during the prerelease. Async also isn't nearly the only thing Dx12 and Vulkan are bringing to the table. It's unfortunate it's become this fanboy rallying cry because it really distorts what's actually exciting about it and the new rendering techniques Dx12 makes possible.

You would think people would give the brand loyalty thing up when it came to graphics cards of all things. lol

I'll post some scores with my 6700k/1080 combo later tonight. Should be fun.
    
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post #132 of 772
Here is my 290X + 290 @ 1075/1375 with 16.7.2 Drivers.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/13208358?
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post #133 of 772
Is it just me or are the benches looking very-- consistent? Linear scaling with multiadapter, and very predictable gains with overclocks, and scores are matching part-for-part.

It seems more consistent to me than FireStrike. That's a good sign. I still think benches should be open-source and transparent, but that's a losing battle.

Maybe without the variable CPU dependencies on the graphics score-- on bare metal this time with DX12-- you don't have the weird variability that plagued FireStrike.
Edited by infranoia - 7/14/16 at 4:01pm
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post #134 of 772
780 Ti 2x SLI slight OC 1283/1800 with a 5960x at 4.4Ghz. Ran this from work through Teamviewer with a bunch of stuff running in background and no kind of OC tweaking. I used the default run. I think doing through Theamviewer hurt the score bad but still not a bad showing for a 2 generation old card(s).

Graphics Score: 6634
CPU: 8732
Combined: 6882



Will put up full OC's and redo when I get home.
post #135 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Anyone who claimed Pascal 'can't do async' wasn't paying attention during the prerelease. Async also isn't nearly the only thing Dx12 and Vulkan are bringing to the table. It's unfortunate it's become this fanboy rallying cry because it really distorts what's actually exciting about it and the new rendering techniques Dx12 makes possible.

You would think people would give the brand loyalty thing up when it came to graphics cards of all things. lol

I'll post some scores with my 6700k/1080 combo later tonight. Should be fun.

Anyone who claims Pascal can do Async does not know what Asynchronous compute + Graphics is or how it works. They likely also have no clue what nVIDIA mean when they are talking about improved preemption and dynamic load balancing amongst GPCs. To these folks... it probably all sounds like a foreign language.

I am sorry dude but some of us understand this stuff. We know what Async compute + graphics is and what it is not. We also understand how nVIDIA were able to get around their lack of hardware support for Asynchronous compute + Graphics by cleverly using the hardware they did have in place coupled with the flexibility afforded to them from using software side scheduling in order to mimic the feature. We also know of the limitations this "simulated" Asynchronous compute + Graphics support entails.

So in essence... we were paying attention. We just understood what we heard. Others just heard "Asynchronous compute" and that is all they needed to hear.

Here is what Pascal does...


The first feature nVIDA introduced is improved Dynamic Load Balancing. Basically.. the entire GPU resources can be dynamically assigned based on priority level access. So an Async Compute + Graphics task may be granted a higher priority access to the available GPU resources. Say the Graphics task is done processing... well a new task can almost immediately be assigned to the freed up GPU resources. So you have less wasted GPU idle time than on Maxwell. Using Dynamic load balancing and improved pre-emption you can improve upon the execution and processing of Asynchronous Compute + Graphics tasks when compared to Maxwell. That being said... this is not the same as Asynchronous Shading (AMD Term) or the Microsoft term "Asynchronous Compute + Graphics". Why? Pascal can’t execute both the Compute and Graphics tasks in parallel without having to rely on serial execution and leveraging Pascal’s new pre-emption capabilities. So in essence... this is not the same thing AMD’s GCN does. The GCN architecture has Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACE’s for short) which allow for the execution of multiple kernels concurrently and in parallel without requiring pre-emption.



What is pre-emption? It basically means ending a task which is currently executing in order to execute another task at a higher priority level. Doing so requires a full flush of the currently occupied GPC within the Pascal GPU. This flush occurs very quickly with Pascal (contrary to Maxwell). So a GPC can be emptied quickly and begin processing a higher priority workload (Graphics or Compute task). An adjacent GPC can also do the same and process the task specified by the Game code to be processed in parallel (Graphics or Compute task). So you have TWO GPCs being fully occupied just to execute a single Asynchronous Compute + Graphics request. There are not many GPCs so I think you can guess what happens when the Asynchronous Compute + Graphics workload becomes elevated. A Delay or latency is introduced. We see this when running AotS under the crazy preset on Pascal. Anything above 1080p and you lose performance with Async Compute turned on.

Both of these features together allow for Pascal to process very light Asynchronous Compute + Graphics workloads without having actual Asynchronous Compute + Graphics hardware on hand.

So no... Pascal does not support Asynchronous Compute + Graphics. Pascal has a hacked method which is meant to buy nVIDIA time until Volta comes out.
Edited by Mahigan - 7/14/16 at 4:38pm
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post #136 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by infranoia View Post

Is it just me or are the benches looking very-- consistent? Linear scaling with multiadapter, and very predictable gains with overclocks, and scores are matching part-for-part.

It seems more consistent to me than FireStrike. That's a good sign. I still think benches should be open-source and transparent, but that's a losing battle.

Maybe without the variable CPU dependencies on the graphics score-- on bare metal this time with DX12-- you don't have the weird variability that plagued FireStrike.

Your perhaps just trying to make a point but Dx12 is not a bare metal API. You're going to have to go to something like GNM to actually find that in the real world and it's not on PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

Anyone who claims Pascal can do Async does not know what Asynchronous compute + Graphics is or how it works. They likely also have no clue what nVIDIA mean when they are talking about improved preemption and dynamic load balancing amongst GPCs. To these folks... it probably all sounds like a foreign language.

I am sorry dude but some of us understand this stuff. We know what Async compute + graphics is and what it is not. We also understand how nVIDIA were able to get around their lack of hardware support for Asynchronous compute + Graphics by cleverly using the hardware they did have in place coupled with the flexibility afforded to them from using software side scheduling in order to mimic the feature. We also know of the limitations this "simulated" Asynchronous compute + Graphics support entails.

So in essence... we were paying attention. We just understood what we heard. Others just heard "Asynchronous compute" and that is all they needed to hear.

Right so Pascal can do async.

6.8% gains are staring you right in the face man. That's compared to 8% for Polaris. When there is no visual difference it doesn't really matter how it got done as long as it's done.

Until AMD cards are getting consistently better framerates in the best looking games on the platform regardless of API or hardware features used none of it will matter for them.

Is what it is.
    
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post #137 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Your perhaps just trying to make a point but Dx12 is not a bare metal API.

Technically correct but pedantic. DirectX 12 removes a great deal of the CPU / API overhead that plagued DX11 by providing more direct access to GPU resources, which was my point.
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post #138 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post


Your perhaps just trying to make a point but Dx12 is not a bare metal API. You're going to have to go to something like GNM to actually find that in the real world and it's not on PC.
Right so Pascal can do async.

6.8% gains are staring you right in the face man. That's compared to 8% for Polaris. When there is no visual difference it doesn't really matter how it got done as long as it's done.

Until AMD cards are getting consistently better framerates in the best looking games on the platform regardless of API or hardware features used none of it will matter for them.

Is what it is.

 

Pascal can work with async and even achieve gains through their improved pre-emption but it's not quite the same. That's not to say it's the worst thing ever; nobody is trying to invalidate your Pascal purchase, they're very good cards. But they're not doing asynchronous compute to its full potential under DX12/Vulkan. And that is, as you say, what it is.

 

As to the bit I put in bold, I'm assuming you mean at the very high-end. While what you say may be true for the fraction of PC gamers that purchase $600+ GPU's, it falls flat as a declarative statement once qualified. The fact is that at a variety of price strata AMD cards meet or exceed their Nvidia counterparts and the lower-tier cards are where the majority of the market is sat. I think it is a very big deal that AMD's older architectures and budget chips are surpassing their generational counterparts and encroaching on the next gen (a la Hawaii).

     
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post #139 of 772
well its not totally biased and does have to have a whole crap load of different hardware to manage biggrin.gif
post #140 of 772
Where you guys downloading this? I cant get it to install through internal updater. I tried downloading it twice both links @Majorgeeks. But, both times unzipping. It says a file is corrupt. Ugh.
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