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[Various] Futuremark Releases 3DMark Time Spy DirectX 12 Benchmark - Page 17

post #161 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orthello View Post

No excuses needed really from AMD fans from what i see Radeons are stronger in this bench vs NV than they were in Firestrike

Was just about to mention that. Not sure what the fuss is. AMD has stronger gains with DX12 than Nvidia on the same process, due to hardware scheduling vs. software preemption. Meanwhile Pascal looks good due to brute force, a quality process and now async compute preemption. Attaboys all around.

Is any of this a surprise to anyone?
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post #162 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post


I had 290s under water before this purely because the Aquacomputer block was so great looking. I'm sure you can find pictures in my profile if you look. I'll continue to buy the fastest card(s) available based on what currently excites me hardware and speed-wise. It's got nothing to do with 'my purchase'.


The async thing bothers me because it's a muddied issue that no one here really understands because none of us are engineers (for the most part). Nvidia cards however make use of it and do show gains. Regardless of whether it's through hardware, software or a combination of both.

 

I didn't mean to offend, apologies if it came off as aggressive towards you.

 

The thing is that there are people here and in other tech forums that do have a solid grasp on the topic. If you've paid attention to the entire async saga, Kollock from Oxide said that Maxwell didn't have easily implemented solutions to deal with asynchronous compute. It was designed around serial performance which allowed Nvidia to kill it under DX11. To the best of our knowledge Pascal hasn't added any ACE's or the like. What they have done is add superior pre-emption as part of their serial processing which improves the ability of the GPU to rapidly switch between tasks compared to Maxwell. It appears to be effective as a solution in terms of delivering a performance boost, demonstrating that the pre-emption can keep relative pace with the workload. It's not, however, performing the tasks in parallel as AMD's hardware allows with multiple ACE's. 

 

Sure, it's quibbling if the performance is there, but as we've seen in gaming workloads AMD's solution seems to translate into a larger performance gain. Part of this is due to AMD's overhead under DX11, but some GPU's with performance at or near their Nvidia counterparts are still making considerable gains with async workloads enabled.

     
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post #163 of 772
Wait so Nvidia can perform Async Compute now? That's right Nvidia has something called "Enhanced Async Compute". Great marketing. It has nothing to do with fanboys or people who loves which brand more. You cannot redefine a technology because you don't support it properly. As long as Nvidia has money and has a ton of TWIMTBP titles in their pocket they can do anything necessary to ensure that their GPUs aren't left behind regardless of the latest and greatest technology. Money talks and workloads will favor the money and we all know that.

Nvidia is using preemption, but more efficiently now. Preemption is basically suspending certain task in favor or more important task. This still causes the same issues found in DX11 as well as older architecture. The overhead and\or context switching still occurs which causes issues with performance. In other words you aren't getting the full performance you could get using Nvidia version of "Preemption" when compared to AMDs Asynchronous Compute. It's better than nothing, but still has the same flaws, however the GPU still has idle periods when it's waiting for the workload to switch. Or in other words Nvidia cannot handle parallel workloads. The data must stop for more important task, then resume.

When I saw Nvidia trying to explain Asynchronous Compute in DX11 I was literally lmao. Nvidia calls this "Enhanced Async Compute". There's nothing "enhanced" about it. They are basically still relying on serial-like workloads through the drivers to feed the hardware. That alone shows that Nvidia is using their marketing yet again to get people to believe in their "Enhanced Async Compute". Judging by this topic it's working since some people honestly believe this benchmark shows that Nvidia can perform Asynchronous Compute, although many devs have stated that Nvidia does NOT support Asynchronous Compute repeatedly. Maybe Nvidia will support it soon, who knows.

So in this DX12-Time Spy synthetic benchmark the GTX 1070 FE is 17.29% faster than my Fury X [graphics score]. However in an actual game, Doom + Vulkan + Asynchronous Compute, the Fury X is 18% faster and is ahead of the GTX 1070 by 25fps. This wasn't the case in OpenGL 4.3[AMD] - 4.5 [Nvidia]

So which is it. Nvidia can do Async compute in DX12, but not in the Vulkan API? Does anyone else find that very odd?

No, Nvidia cannot do async + compute. I'm sure that the developers will work with Nvidia to ensure that their GPUs can gain performance using the newer APIs. I personally think AMD hardware is better suited for the latest tech which doesn't require extra work. Devs are still learning how to work with DX12 and Vulkan. I'm sure Nvidia will get their act together with the next architecture or at least I hope so.
    
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post #164 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana-Maru View Post

Wait so Nvidia can perform Async Compute now? That's right Nvidia has something called "Enhanced Async Compute". Great marketing. It has nothing to do with fanboys or people who loves which brand more. You cannot redefine a technology because you don't support it properly. As long as Nvidia has money and has a ton of TWIMTBP titles in their pocket they can do anything necessary to ensure that their GPUs aren't left behind regardless of the latest and greatest technology. Money talks and workloads will favor the money and we all know that.

Nvidia is using preemption, but more efficiently now. Preemption is basically suspending certain task in favor or more important task. This still causes the same issues found in DX11 as well as older architecture. The overhead and\or context switching still occurs which causes issues with performance. In other words you aren't getting the full performance you could get using Nvidia version of "Preemption" when compared to AMDs Asynchronous Compute. It's better than nothing, but still has the same flaws, however the GPU still has idle periods when it's waiting for the workload to switch. Or in other words Nvidia cannot handle parallel workloads. The data must stop for more important task, then resume.

When I saw Nvidia trying to explain Asynchronous Compute in DX11 I was literally lmao. Nvidia calls this "Enhanced Async Compute". There's nothing "enhanced" about it. They are basically still relying on serial-like workloads through the drivers to feed the hardware. That alone shows that Nvidia is using their marketing yet again to get people to believe in their "Enhanced Async Compute". Judging by this topic it's working since some people honestly believe this benchmark shows that Nvidia can perform Asynchronous Compute, although many devs have stated that Nvidia does NOT support Asynchronous Compute repeatedly. Maybe Nvidia will support it soon, who knows.

So in this DX12-Time Spy synthetic benchmark the GTX 1070 FE is 17.29% faster than my Fury X [graphics score]. However in an actual game, Doom + Vulkan + Asynchronous Compute, the Fury X is 18% faster and is ahead of the GTX 1070 by 25fps. This wasn't the case in OpenGL 4.3[AMD] - 4.5 [Nvidia]

So which is it. Nvidia can do Async compute in DX12, but not in the Vulkan API? Does anyone else find that very odd?

No, Nvidia cannot do async + compute. I'm sure that the developers will work with Nvidia to ensure that their GPUs can gain performance using the newer APIs. I personally think AMD hardware is better suited for the latest tech which doesn't require extra work. Devs are still learning how to work with DX12 and Vulkan. I'm sure Nvidia will get their act together with the next architecture or at least I hope so.

Why do AMD supporters go on rants like this?
Nvidia owners just don't care man. We have the faster cards and don't need a certain game or settings to seemingly compete with cards out of our league.

I've owned AMD cards from the 5870 up to the 290X. Great cards, but AMD doesn't appeal to the enthusiast customer anymore.
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post #165 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldExclusive View Post

Why do AMD supporters go on rants like this?
Nvidia owners just don't care man. We have the faster cards and don't need a certain game or settings to seemingly compete with cards out of are league.

I've owned AMD cards from the 5870 up to the 290X. Great cards, but AMD doesn't appeal to the enthusiast customer anymore.

That's your opinion, but my post was not a rant. I was just posting some facts. If you are comfortable with your purchase that's fine. That's not what the point of my post was about. Some people clearly have no idea what they are talking about or believing the marketing hype.

Yes Nvidia is leading, but DX12 and Vulkan are modern APIs. DX11 is on the way out and won't be here forever. So while Nvidia is busy "wowing" people with their high GPU core clocks, their architecture is lacking some features than can greatly benefit the consumer using the newer APIs. Of course we will begin to see the good developers and the bad. DX11 serial workloads are old and outdated. Parallel workloads are here and it is the future. If you want to call that a rant or a "AMD supporter" rant then feel free to think that way. It doesn't change the fact that AMD supports Async compute and parallel workloads and Nvidia does not.

Quote:
but AMD doesn't appeal to the enthusiast customer anymore.

lol biggrin.gif
Edited by Kana-Maru - 7/14/16 at 5:43pm
    
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post #166 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post


Can someone run this bench with a GCN 1.1 midgrade card like the R9 270 or something and provide some insight on performance deltas for async? Polaris is either bottlenecked somewhere or GCN 4.0 is showing async regression.
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post #167 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldExclusive View Post


Why do AMD supporters go on rants like this?
Nvidia owners just don't care man. We have the faster cards and don't need a certain game or settings to seemingly compete with cards out of our league.

I've owned AMD cards from the 5870 up to the 290X. Great cards, but AMD doesn't appeal to the enthusiast customer anymore.

 

I mean, that's true for you as last generation you had a 980 Ti, but it doesn't apply equally to those who owned 970's or 960's. I'm an 'enthusiast' if we're just talking about money spent - mine's just distributed in a variety of systems because I like to play with different combinations from the red, green, and the blue. I'd argue that is just as 'enthusiast' as yolo swaggins dropping the same amount on a single system. In that respect I'd say that AMD has a number of interesting options for the enthusiast. What you mean to say is that they don't appeal to the turbobling customer any longer, and that's true. I'd argue that it's wiser to appeal to the 90% than the 10%, and it doesn't stop plenty of AMD GPU's from turning in competitive performance at nearly every tier. 

     
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post #168 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

Re-read my post. I have broken it down for you.

Yeah... I have speculated as to the reasons why. Re-read my prior posts.

I'm sure your speculation is fascinating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

I didn't mean to offend, apologies if it came off as aggressive towards you.

The thing is that there are people here and in other tech forums that do have a solid grasp on the topic. If you've paid attention to the entire async saga, Kollock from Oxide said that Maxwell didn't have easily implemented solutions to deal with asynchronous compute. It was designed around serial performance which allowed Nvidia to kill it under DX11. To the best of our knowledge Pascal hasn't added any ACE's or the like. What they have done is add superior pre-emption as part of their serial processing which improves the ability of the GPU to rapidly switch between tasks compared to Maxwell. It appears to be effective as a solution in terms of delivering a performance boost, demonstrating that the pre-emption can keep relative pace with the workload. It's not, however, performing the tasks in parallel as AMD's hardware allows with multiple ACE's. 

Sure, it's quibbling if the performance is there, but as we've seen in gaming workloads AMD's solution seems to translate into a larger performance gain. Part of this is due to AMD's overhead under DX11, but some GPU's with performance at or near their Nvidia counterparts are still making considerable gains with async workloads enabled.

Right I get all that. Anyway we don't really disagree on anything. I think the your purchase thing got me my bad.

Anyway I'm redownloading 3dmark. 1080 benches coming up shortly.
    
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post #169 of 772
And just like that... 9000 falls to 1070 SLI (actually 11,408 for GPU)

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/13212917?

Everest - Intel
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Everest - Intel
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post #170 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldExclusive View Post

Why do AMD supporters go on rants like this?
Nvidia owners just don't care man. We have the faster cards and don't need a certain game or settings to seemingly compete with cards out of our league.

I've owned AMD cards from the 5870 up to the 290X. Great cards, but AMD doesn't appeal to the enthusiast customer anymore.

If this was true, half the posts in this thread wouldn't exist.

Not taking a dig at you btw, just that it cracks me up everytime someone claims they "don't care" and then proceed with a 10 page diatribe/posting all the way to page 100 (again, not talking about you here).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Can someone run this bench with a GCN 1.1 midgrade card like the R9 270 or something and provide some insight on performance deltas for async? Polaris is either bottlenecked somewhere or GCN 4.0 is showing async regression.

It would be quite embarrassing if Polaris indeed regressed in async abilities.
Edited by magnek - 7/14/16 at 5:45pm
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