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[Various] Futuremark Releases 3DMark Time Spy DirectX 12 Benchmark - Page 20

post #191 of 772
I think you are both arguing different things.

You are arguing that FuryX beats a GTX 980 Ti under every DX12/Vulkan game.

Remi is arguing that a GTX 1070/1080 are faster than AMDs older generation GPUs.

As for me... I do not care much about the performance I am seeing. I am simply here to explain why we are seeing it. I could care less about benchmarks or epeen.

There is one dude brushing aside what I am saying (eventhough this is my topic and yes... some of us here ARE ENGINEERS) and others who claim I am making excuses when I am actually attempting to explain what is happening.

There are people who think that Pascal will not gain performance when running Asynchronous compute + graphics. They are wrong.

There are other people who think that Pascal supports Asynchronous Compute + Graphics and they are wrong.

Pascal is using a hack... a clever hack.

Pascal makes use of its more advanced pre-emption capabilities (compared to Maxwell) and its Dynamic Load Balancing capabilities in order to process Asynchronous Compute + Graphics tasks concurrently. There is a limit to how many of these tasks Pascal can handle due to the GPC nature of Pascal. Each GTX 1080 is broken up into 4 GPCs (GPUs within a GPU) and each GPC can only be populated by either an array of Compute or Graphics tasks (not both) at any given time. Therefore a GTX 1080 can have two GPCs populated with Compute Tasks and two GPCs populated with Graphics Tasks (or 3 to 1 etc). The load can be dynamically balanced in order to allow for more GPU resources to be dedicated to one set of tasks over another.

Compute and Graphics tasks are not executed in parallel or concurrently. They are (as in Maxwell) executed sequentially but they are processed (up to a certain limit) concurrently.

This will give you a small performance boost under light loads. This is why nVIDIA released AotS benchmark figures using the "high" preset and not the "crazy" preset.

This is not bickering... that is how Pascal works.

I am only attempting to explain why we see the performance boost. The kicker is that everything I have said comes straight from nVIDIA...
Source... http://international.download.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/pdfs/GeForce_GTX_1080_Whitepaper_FINAL.pdf
Quote:
The first scenario involves overlapping workloads. Certain types of workloads do not fill the GPU completely by themselves. In these cases there is a performance opportunity to run two workloads at the same time, sharing the GPU and running more efficiently—for example a PhysX workload running concurrently with graphics rendering.
For overlapping workloads, Pascal introduces support for “dynamic load balancing.” In Maxwell generation GPUs, overlapping workloads were implemented with static partitioning of the GPU into a subset that runs graphics, and a subset that runs compute. This is efficient provided that the balance of work between the two loads roughly matches the partitioning ratio. However, if the compute workload takes longer than the graphics workload, and both need to complete before new work can be done, and the portion of the GPU configured to run graphics will go idle. This can cause reduced performance that may exceed any performance benefit that would have been provided from running the workloads overlapped. Hardware dynamic load balancing addresses this issue by allowing either workload to fill the rest of the machine if idle resources are available.

Translated... In other words... you have one GPC handling Graphics and another handling Compute. You have one task in the GPC handling Graphics which is synchronized with one task in the GPC handling Compute. If the Compute task takes longer than the Graphics task and if there are idle compute resources in the GPC in which this longer running compute task is located then those idle resources can be dynamically assigned to the long running compute task in order to boost performance and complete it quicker.

Quote:
In the command pushbuffer, three draw calls have been executed, one is in process and two are waiting. The current draw call has six triangles, three have been processed, one is being rasterized and two are waiting. The triangle being rasterized is about halfway through. When a preemption request is received, the rasterizer, triangle shading and command pushbuffer processor will all stop and save off their current position. Pixels that have already been rasterized will finish pixel shading and then the GPU is ready to take on the new high priority workload. The entire process of switching to a new workload can complete in less than 100 microseconds (μs) after the pixel shading work is finished.

Translated... In other words if you have a high priority Asychronous compute + graphics task that enters the pipeline it can be assigned a priority over currently running tasks. So a GPC will be flushed of currently running tasks (taking less than 100 ms) so that this high priority job can be executed quickly.


What if the GPU is busy and there are no idling resources? That is my argument. You get no performance boost from using Dynamic Load Balancing and thus no performance boost (and maybe even a performance loss) when running high Asynchronous Compute + Graphics workloads.

So yeah... not bickering... informing people instead.
Edited by Mahigan - 7/14/16 at 6:21pm
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post #192 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Yeah but 12 hours round trip + $70 for gas = frown.gif

I got it for $400, really can't complain.

I was considering a 5820K or 6800K for my ITX build but the lack of a quad channel ITX board is discouraging...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



I still need a GPU for my new build wink.gif
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post #193 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

Both tests with i7-4790K @ 4.7GHz

R9 290 Double Dissipation @ 947/1250:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
@ 1125/1520:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Mind rerunning with and without Async?
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post #194 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

I was considering a 5820K or 6800K for my ITX build but the lack of a quad channel ITX board is discouraging...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



I still need a GPU for my new build wink.gif

You're not missing out on much (anything?) by not having quad channel ram. At least this was the case on X79, and appears to hold true on X99 as well.

If gaming is a priority, I honestly think 6700K + super fast (>3600) DDR4 would be a better way to go.
post #195 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post


I think you are both arguing the wrong thing.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
A FuryX beats a GTX 980 Ti under every DX12/Vulkan game.

Remi is arguing that a GTX 1070/1080 are faster than AMDs older generation GPUs.

As for me... I do not care much about the performance I am seeing. I am simply here to explain why we are seeing it. I could care less about benchmarks or epeen.

There is one dude brushing aside what I am saying (eventhough this is my topic and yes... some of us here ARE ENGINEERS) and others who claim I am making excuses when I am actually attempting to explain what is happening.

There are people who think that Pascal will not gain performance when running Asynchronous compute + graphics. They are wrong.

There are other people who think that Pascal supports Asynchronous Compute + Graphics and they are wrong.

Pascal is using a hack... a clever hack.

Pascal makes use of its more advanced pre-emption capabilities (compared to Maxwell) and its Dynamic Load Balancing capabilities in order to process Asynchronous Compute + Graphics tasks concurrently. There is a limit to how many of these tasks Pascal can handle due to the GPC nature of Pascal. Each GTX 1080 is broken up into 4 GPCs (GPUs within a GPU) and each GPC can only be populated by either an array of Compute or Graphics tasks (not both) at any given time. Therefore a GTX 1080 can have two GPCs populated with Compute Tasks and two GPCs populated with Graphics Tasks (or 3 to 1 etc). The load can be dynamically balanced in order to allow for more GPU resources to be dedicated to one set of tasks over another.

Compute and Graphics tasks are not executed in parallel or concurrently. They are (as in Maxwell) executed sequentially but they are processed (up to a certain limit) concurrently.

This will give you a small performance boost under light loads. This is why nVIDIA released AotS benchmark figures using the "high" preset and not the "crazy" preset.

This is not bickering... that is how Pascal works.

I am only attempting to explain why we see the performance boost. The kicker is that everything I have said comes straight from nVIDIA...
Source... http://international.download.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/pdfs/GeForce_GTX_1080_Whitepaper_FINAL.pdf
Translated... In other words... you have one GPC handling Graphics and another handling Compute. You have one task in the GPC handling Graphics which is synchronized with one task in the GPC handling Compute. If the Compute task takes longer than the Graphics task and if there are idle compute resources in the GPC in which this longer running compute task is located then those idle resources can be dynamically assigned to the long running compute task in order to boost performance and complete it quicker.
Translated... In other words if you have a high priority Asychronous compute + graphics task that enters the pipeline it can be assigned a priority over currently running tasks. So a GPC will be flushed of currently running tasks (taking less than 100 ms) so that this high priority job can be executed quickly.


What if the GPU is busy and there are no idling resources? That is my argument. You get no performance boost from using Dynamic Load Balancing and thus no performance boost (and maybe even a performance loss) when running high Asynchronous Compute + Graphics workloads.

So yeah... not bickering... informing people instead.
I was just pointing out who are actually making excuses and being hypocrites.

And for you, keep up the good work. your posts are very informative. i've learned a lot from you thumb.gif
post #196 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

GTX 1080

GPU score - 7764
CPU score - 5867

Overall - 7404

Going to play around with higher resolutions and try with and without async but these are my benches at 2075/5400 on the GPU and 4.7 on the CPU. I know I could go higher on both processors but I'm so new to this computer I haven't gotten around to really push it to the limit yet.

http://www.3dmark.com/spy/19257

Sorry about quoting myself here.

Run WITHOUT async.

GPU - 7312
CPU - 5809

http://www.3dmark.com/spy/19551

Someone can figure out the exact percentages but let's finally put this async narrative to bed for all the engineers out there.
    
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post #197 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Can someone run this bench with a GCN 1.1 midgrade card like the R9 270 or something and provide some insight on performance deltas for async? Polaris is either bottlenecked somewhere or GCN 4.0 is showing async regression.

Polaris has 4 ACEs vs 8 ACEs.
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post #199 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Polaris has 4 ACEs vs 8 ACEs.

FuryX has less ACEs as well (4 ACEs and 2 HWSs same as Polaris).

The difference is in the available Compute Units. There are more likely less idling Compute Unis on Polaris than there are on Hawaii/Grenada. As such there is probably a longer wait time (latency) involved with Polaris than with Hawaii/Grenada.

There are also less Graphics resources available on Polaris vs both the FuryX and Hawaii/Grenada. Asynchronous Compute + Graphics is achieved by running Graphics and Compute tasks concurrently. If you have to wait for available Graphics and/or Compute resources then you will obtain lower returns.

That is my take.
Edited by Mahigan - 7/14/16 at 6:44pm
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post #200 of 772
@Mahigan Good post.

I wonder what would happen if say... a certain benchmark did light workloads asynchronously, while not doing graphics + compute in parallel, and then used lots of tessellation? redface.gif
Edited by GorillaSceptre - 7/14/16 at 6:37pm
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