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[Various] Futuremark Releases 3DMark Time Spy DirectX 12 Benchmark - Page 51

post #501 of 772
"Now it's nothing more than Nvidia (DX11) vs AMD (DX12)"

That's how it's been for a very long time. When Fermi was new, it was massive amounts of tessellation (NV) vs. more restrained use of the feature (AMD). In the DX10 era it was DX10.1 vs 10.0 and debates over image quality and whether or not 10.1 was actually going to be supported. It's been GDDR4 vs. GDDR3, brilinear filtering vs. trilinear filtering (NV lost this one pretty hard, since brilinear filtering was a hack to boost GeForce FX performance). It's been Shader Model 2.0b vs. Shader Model 3. Way back in the day, it was 32-bit vs. 16-bit color -- NV cards had much better 16-bit color than ATI, which tended to have real problems with 16-bit, while ATI's 32-bit color was superior but slower. Heck, I remember when people talked about 2D image quality because it was a differentiation point between companies like Matrox, NV, and ATI.

The reason you're seeing such a knock-down, drag-out fight on various issues of DX12 is because a lot of people don't understand what is and isn't part of the DX12 specification. This leads to allegations of cheating and claims that X or Y doesn't support (or is variously lying) about the ability to perform various types of computation. The degree to which such allegations are true often hinge on exactly what's being claimed and how the larger picture is represented. I still see people claiming that supporting DirectX 12 at Feature Level 12_0 is a damning problem (implying that everyone needs at least FL 12_1) or that GPUs that only implement FL 11_0 are somehow not "really" supported by DX12.

Of course, this is when someone usually pops in and says: "Well, actually those differences could be important in future titles." And they could be! But people are usually more interested in scoring rhetorical points than in understanding underlying technological details -- and there's a big difference between "We might see long-term differences in how games perform based on DX12 feature level support," and "X cheats on Y because it isn't a "real" DX12 GPU." All too often people treat the latter as a stand in for the former, than justify an over-the-top emotional response based on a flawed understanding of the scope of the problem.

Asynchronous compute is kind of a poster child for this. It's been treated as this make-or-break DX12 capability as though it and it alone determines whether or not a game is "actually" DX12 compatible. In reality, asynchronous compute is one type of compute supported in DX12. It's not mandatory to the spec and the hardware-level differences between AMD and NV basically guarantee that a developer who wants to use the feature on Pascal and GCN will have to write two different implementations to do so. NV is apparently locking off async in Maxwell, presumably to safeguard the end-user experience (async compute code and Maxwell have not generally gotten along very well).

People can argue about the extent to which this change would constitute deceptive marketing or a reversal of NV's early messaging on DX12, but from the end-user's perspective, what matters is ensuring high performance and a good experience. If AMD continues to demonstrate strong gains on DX12 it may pick up some market share on the strength of those improvements -- but in both cases, teams Red and Green are playing to their respective strengths.
Edited by DigiHound - 7/18/16 at 10:24am
post #502 of 772
So to bring it back to the topic of Time Spy as a synthetic benhmark that is merely a tool to measure with...

Anyone have results for explicit multi adapter? The refrence earlier in the thread that you will only ever get the performace of the lowest common denominator is only partially correct from what i have seen.

I have seen videos that show bottlenecking of that sort when the weaker card is set up in the primary position, but when the stronger card is primary you get better than primary card only reasults. Scaling is what i am most interested in.

Specifically if anyone has an APU setup that they can disable the iGPU for and run with a dedicated GPU only...then enable both and show me the difference.

This is a link explaining better what i am curious about and would like to see how Time Spy compares.

http://wccftech.com/directx-12-multiadapter-technology-discrete-integrated-gpus-work-coherently-demo-shows-big-performance-gains/
Edited by gapottberg - 7/18/16 at 11:24am
post #503 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

So to bring it back to the topic of Time Spy as a synthetic benhmark that is merely a tool to measure with...

Anyone have results for explicit multi adapter? The refrence earlier in the thread that you will only ever get the performace of the lowest common denominator is only partially correct from what i have seen.

I have seen videos that show bottlenecking of that sort when the weaker card is set up in the primary position, but when the stronger card is primary you get better than primary card only reasults. Scaling is what i am most interested in.

Specifically if anyone has an APU setup that they can disable the iGPU for and run with a dedicated GPU only...then enable both and show me the difference.

This is a link explaining better what i am curious about and would like to see how Time Spy compares.

http://wccftech.com/directx-12-multiadapter-technology-discrete-integrated-gpus-work-coherently-demo-shows-big-performance-gains/

Go back to page 46 or so or check this link, this was covered earlier
http://www.overclock.net/t/1605899/various-futuremark-releases-3dmark-time-spy-directx-12-benchmark/450#post_25355259
post #504 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagget3450 View Post

Go back to page 46 or so or check this link, this was covered earlier
http://www.overclock.net/t/1605899/various-futuremark-releases-3dmark-time-spy-directx-12-benchmark/450#post_25355259

Ive followed the entire thread from day 1. I reread that portion again. Some of the info is relevant but it doesnt answer my question.


I want data...data of a system running a benchmark with an APU that has the iGPU disabled using solely a descreet GPU. And data using both with EMA enabled. I have not seen such numbers anywhere in this thread as of yet. I have however proposed that in the comming weeks i may be able to get a hold of my sons A10 7850K and do some benching with my 390X and 270 i have on hand, but it will be awhile.
post #505 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottis View Post

Nvidia still destroyed AMD in all majors games in 2015. Witcher 3, RotTR, Far Cry Primal, GTA5, The Division.


Witcher 3

Oh yeah overtessellated crapworks title the way it's meant to stutter


RotTR

Another the way it's meant to stutter title that has atrocious performance on amd (unsurprisingly the first tomb raider performed very well after some patches on nvidia gpus despite being amd's title, I know, I had nvidia back then) , devs even hide the fact that purehair is tressfx and it works MUCH -MUCH faster than crapworks hair

far cry

another crapworks title

The Division

wait..it can't be..can it?? crapworks

gta v

jeez.. crapworks again..


Thank you for pointing out Huang's crimes against the game industry and gamers. We will never forget. We will never forgive. And the man will answer for his crimes.mad.gif
post #506 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

Ive followed the entire thread from day 1. I reread that portion again. Some of the info is relevant but it doesnt answer my question.


I want data...data of a system running a benchmark with an APU that has the iGPU disabled using solely a descreet GPU. And data using both with EMA enabled. I have not seen such numbers anywhere in this thread as of yet. I have however proposed that in the comming weeks i may be able to get a hold of my sons A10 7850K and do some benching with my 390X and 270 i have on hand, but it will be awhile.

From how i understood it if you can crossfire or sli it then thats all the multigpu action you will get.
post #507 of 772
"Nvidia still destroyed AMD in all majors games in 2015"

Nope. I mean, really, that's just a ridiculous assertion. You listed *five* games and one of your assertions is just flat wrong.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/far_cry_primal_pc_graphics_performance_benchmark_review,8.html

In Far Cry Primal, yes the GTX Titan X and 980 Ti were faster than an R9 Fury X, which is undoubtedly comforting to the handful of people who spend more than $600 on a GPU. For everyone *else*, the AMD and NV results were extremely tight. With the R9 290X beating the GTX 980 and the R9 290 besting the GTX 970, I'd argue the data favors AMD.

If you want to make an argument that NV "destroyed AMD" in all major games last year, bring a sales chart, benchmark data, and at least a Top 20 list. If you can make a case with actual evidence, I'm all ears (or eyes).
post #508 of 772

That's the thing. Silly arguments about Nvidia 'destroying' AMD in 'every game' almost invariably refer to the performance of the 980 Ti / TX versus the Fury X. Never mind that AMD was at parity or winning in every other (much more populated) bracket in the vast majority of games. It's like the people who make those claims get worn out from reading the first two cards listed on a performance chart, sparing only enough energy to fire off an 'AMD suCKZz' post before rolling off their chair and passing out from the strain.

     
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post #509 of 772
Let's face it we need an OCN benchmark to be happy tongue.gif One that supports all the available features for all the major architectures.
post #510 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Let's face it we need an OCN benchmark to be happy tongue.gif One that supports all the available features for all the major architectures.

 

It would be a project of titanic proportion, likely why Time Spy is oriented to the lowest common denominator between architectures. :2coolsmil

     
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