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Personal Comparison of Stock 480 vs. Max OC 480 - Page 3

post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes5 View Post

I think you may be mistaken. I was thinking this too but the numbers out there are total SYSTEM power draw. I saw numbers of over 300W and I thought to myself, "Wow, this is the 290/290x all over again." But that doesn't make any sense because with even an 8-pin connector, the card should only draw about 225 max though many power supplies can easily go over.

TBH, the power draw really doesn't matter except for people buying pre-mades (where they have bad power supplies and only one 6-pin cable from the power supply) or if your card is a furnace like the 290/390's were. It's nice that the 1060 runs cooler, but 175W to 120W is meh ... your room is not going to get that much hotter. It's not as drastic as the difference between the 970 and 290.



And how exactly do you expect that the display driver (from which the software reads the power draw) know the "total system power" consumption? The figure displayed by GPU-Z is just for the GPU itself (and not even for the whole card) and nothing else.

The reason why RX 480 is so inefficient and shows colossal increases in the power usage when pushed even further, is because AMD pushed it too far beyond the process capabilities right out of the box. They probably greatly underestimated nVidia's Pascals and once the actual figures were out, were forced to ramp up the clocks (and destroy the efficiency) to be even remotely competitive performance wise. According to certain press members who participated AMD's event at Macao, the default clocks were not disclosed at the time. Many of them say that it felt like AMD hadn't really decided them at that point.




Now imagine if the GPU would provide the same performance at 900MHz as it now does at 1266MHz. It would be a 90W card at most (instead of 150W).
post #22 of 42
Have you benchmarked ethereum mining with the card stock / oc?
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post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post




The power draw (displayed by GPU-Z) for a stock card is ~100-120W, depending if "compability mode" is active or not. That's exactly where is should be, for a GPU with 110W TDP limit. The displayed power is for the GPU ASIC (chip) only, nothing else is included. The secondary power planes, memory and the VRM losses add ~40W on top of that. From the PSU that's around 150W and from the wall (total system power draw) ~ 170W when a efficient (88%) PSU is used.

265.6 / 110 to 120 = 121.3% to 141.4% increase, depending on how much the specimen consumed at stock.

 

Once again you are comparing stock to an extremely unlikely scenario where the card has been modified to push it to the absolute brink...this is FAR from what 99.9% of the user base for this card will be doing.

 

What was the card cooled with for that frequency of 1530?  Was this an I2C and watercooling mod like Der8auer performed?  Or LN2?

 

Under normal circumstances the power increase is not this drastic.  Using my GPU-Z figures the card went from 140 176.3 with stock voltage, overclock and +50% power.  This yields 26% increased power draw. 

 


 

What is the max power draw from that screen snip? It isn't selected to display max this time, while the previous snip was...the graph looks pretty steady but there is fluctuation and it's not an apples to apples comparison. 

 

The voltage at 1.0562 seems low, possibly an under-volt? That has been proven by multiple sources to reduce power consumption and assist in holding the stock 1266 boost clocks.  

 

Or is it compatibility mode?  At stock settings my card was hitting the 1.15V maximum needed for boost clocks and it was pulling max of 140W; without compatibility mode enabled.

 

This is information that is necessary to make an accurate comparison.  If you're comparing the card running in compatibility mode, to the situation where it has been pushed to get every last MHz out of it...that just doesn't make sense.  It just seems to me like you're trying to portray the card as poorly as possible.

 

What happens to the efficiency of the 1060 when it is put through the same circumstances?


Edited by Roboyto - 7/23/16 at 8:19pm
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post #24 of 42
Almost 7K Graphics in FSE. Don't care about the power draw. I'll take it!

Just for benching, though. What's the power draw at 1400?

Only way my 290 can beat that is when Tess is off.redface.gif

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2071170
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post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboyto View Post


Everything of that is irrelevant, since the stock curve extracted from the bios / driver already shows that the scaling even at stock is simply abysmal beyond 1000MHz region. Those "unrealistic" power figures show align with that perfectly once you expand the Fmax region to past 1400MHz. And that curve is for an average ASIC specimen, there are better and worse than that, however given how the ASIQ Quality is distributed on RX 480 there are more specimens with higher leakage than the average represented by the curve.

I have no idea how the scaling on Pascals is, but I will find out soon enough.
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post


Everything of that is irrelevant, since the stock curve extracted from the bios / driver already shows that the scaling even at stock is simply abysmal beyond 1000MHz region. Those "unrealistic" power figures show align with that perfectly once you expand the Fmax region to past 1400MHz. And that curve is for an average ASIC specimen, there are better and worse than that, however given how the ASIQ Quality is distributed on RX 480 there are more specimens with higher leakage than the average represented by the curve.

I have no idea how the scaling on Pascals is, but I will find out soon enough.

 

Irrelevant?  I think it is relevant to know what means were necessary to push the card to those levels.  The video that Der8auer posted a little ways back stated 260W power draw with the I2C mod and watercooling...something that essentially no one who is buying the RX480 will be doing.  I don't know if this was GPU power draw or the whole card, but there is text that pops up in the video stating 260W total.   https://youtu.be/Jq47qmwcus8  At 2:32 in the video

 

You ignore every question and the whole point I'm trying to make.  Does no one ever question what you post?  

 

Even the AIB cards that have been reviewed, that I've seen, haven't hit 1400 MHz...so to do 1500 requires either an exceptional card, or drastic measures, or likely both, wherein factory power constraints have been thrown out the window.

 

The reason they are "unrealistic" is because the target audience for these cards simply aren't going to be doing that.  That is the point that I'm trying to make, but you refuse to acknowledge this simple fact or answer any of the questions surrounding what was necessary to make the card draw that much power.

 

ALSO, the TDP stated for these cards is 150W...not 110W...don't see why you're spreading incorrect information.  All of these say 150W TDP:

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-480-polaris-10,4616.html 

http://videocardz.com/amd/radeon-rx-400/radeon-rx-480

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-radeon-r9-rx-480-8gb-review,1.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/RX_480/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Radeon_400_series

 

Since the TDP is actually 150W, if it's only drawing 110-120 as you're saying, that would actually be pretty good no?  Or is that bad?  Probably bad if it needs to dissipate 150W of heat and it's only drawing 120W of power.  I'm not officially learned in all this, just a moderate PC enthusiast who makes observations.  It does seem strange that none of the reviews showed the card drawing that little (110-120) power though...even after the driver fix.


Edited by Roboyto - 7/23/16 at 9:09pm
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post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post

The RX 480 overclocks to ~1.4GHz quite easily, however the biggest issue appears to be that the power draw appears to be increasing > 75% while doing so... There have been cases where the power draw has increased by >120% when the GPU has been pushed to the limits (~1.5GHz). The performance per watt on this card is rather poor to begin with, so personally I could not justify such a huge increase in power draw in exchange for a such a small amount of additional performance. For the same reason I have no choice but to go with a competing product, for the first time in over 10 years frown.gif

Lol you must be joking with the bolded. So you're saying with some overclocks the card alone is drawing nearly 400 watts?!?!

Overclocking on air the card draws an extra 20-40W. That's the increase which 99.9% of people will experience. And like someone said, AMD are much closer now in terms of efficiency than they were with the 290 drawing nearly double the watts of the 970 on the previous node, and people still found reason to buy that card perfectly fine.

We all know (or should) that the efficiency of the Polaris GPU is much better at lower clocks and TDP. The 460 and 470 are likely the sweet-spot for the arch and manufacturing process. In fact, far from being obliterated by Nvidia's rival GPU, in these ranges, Polaris will probably meet Pascal head on in a dead-heat in terms of efficiency here. I would be very surprised if the hypothetical 1050 has a lead over the 460/470 in terms of efficiency as we know Pascal is the opposite - the 1060 is less efficient than its bigger, faster brothers.
post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatun-Bear View Post

Lol you must be joking with the bolded. So you're saying with some overclocks the card alone is drawing nearly 400 watts?!?!

Overclocking on air the card draws an extra 20-40W. That's the increase which 99.9% of people will experience. And like someone said, AMD are much closer now in terms of efficiency than they were with the 290 drawing nearly double the watts of the 970 on the previous node, and people still found reason to buy that card perfectly fine.

We all know (or should) that the efficiency of the Polaris GPU is much better at lower clocks and TDP. The 460 and 470 are likely the sweet-spot for the arch and manufacturing process. In fact, far from being obliterated by Nvidia's rival GPU, in these ranges, Polaris will probably meet Pascal head on in a dead-heat in terms of efficiency here. I would be very surprised if the hypothetical 1050 has a lead over the 460/470 in terms of efficiency as we know Pascal is the opposite - the 1060 is less efficient than its bigger, faster brothers.

What's your malfunction?
How much more is 243 to 265 than 110, in percentage?
post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post


What's your malfunction?
How much more is 243 to 265 than 110, in percentage?

 

Please show me any reputable professional review that puts the power draw of the RX480 at 110-120W; Not an unknown screenshot of GPU-Z.  

 

If the RX480 drew only 110W, which it doesn't, then it would be MORE power efficient than the 1060! And that would be counter intuitive to your original statement saying how you would be purchasing the competitors product for the first time in 10 years.  

 

Just because you use technical words and post graphs doesn't alter the fact that you are twisting facts/figures around to make one brand look better than the other.  

 

What is your malfunction?  


Edited by Roboyto - 7/24/16 at 7:19am
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post #30 of 42
i think he is correct about AMD efficiency
but in DX12/vulkan this card will be pretty competetive smile.gif
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