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[Various] Futuremark's Time Spy DirectX 12 "Benchmark" Compromised. Less Compute/Parallelism than Doom/Aots. Also... - Page 5

post #41 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remij View Post

This is EXACTLY what I said was going to happen. AMD fans are gonna be relentless with this kind of stuff. Blaming developers for not fully taking advantage of every ounce of power that they feel their Radeon cards should gain from DX12 and Async.

Is that weird? Why wouldn't Nvidia owners demand the same? Or Intel owners? Or Charmin owners?

You should see the firestorm that erupted with my Asus RT-AC87U router when it shipped with the vast majority of its advertised features disabled. Many of those (like link aggregation, effective MU-MIMO and overall stability) have never been addressed. People want to actually use the advertised features of their product.

That's not weird.
Edited by infranoia - 7/18/16 at 2:47pm
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post #42 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by infranoia View Post

Is that weird? Why wouldn't Nvidia owners demand the same? Or Intel owners? Or Charmin owners?

Money talks, i am not fan of AAA games devolving to "who brings the case full of cash first".-based development. At least GameWorks was mostly disable-able. IHV bias on another hand, should low level APIs win, actually has a danger of being entirely uncounterable.

Though hey, it will probably raise demand for developers, i should not be complaining with my choice of career.
post #43 of 253
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post

It seems to be coded to strictly favor Pascal's hack-job async implementation, namely compute preemption, as per nVidia's dx12 "do's"and "dont's".






I love big boards like this, because you can call everyone's attention to a problem when it's noticed. And a lot of people here are quite capable of noticing such problems thumb.gif Glad to be a part of such a community.

Anyway, I can say that the logical conclusion from this is that Futuremark's benchmark is BOTCHED and biased, not indicative of DX12 capabilities as it should be, but instead restricting them - thus it has arguably no credibility as a BENCHMARK suite.

Benchmark - Standard, or a set of standards, used as a point of reference for evaluating performance or level of quality. Benchmarks may be drawn from a firm's own experience, from the experience of other firms in the industry, or from legal requirements such as environmental regulations.
+example A new benchmark was set for the football team when weakest member benched 200 pounds, therefore setting the expectations for all other teammates to bench at least that amount.

In this case we have the weakest member benching 200 pounds, but he happens to be sponsoring the gym... and the gym has 2 members. So the bench press goes to 200 pounds.

I am incredibly disappointed and that's why I am giving voice to this in NEWS.


Pointing out mistakes in the post

1. In the async feature table, comparing GCN to NVIDIA architectures (conveniently excludes pascal)

2. Pascal supports much more than pre-emption , it actually supports async compute via it's dynamic load balancer
How does this work?
a) There are two Tasks A and B running at the same time.
b) Task A completes before Task B
c)The Dynamic load balancer ensure Task B takes over the resources of Task A
d) This results in usage of "Idle cycles", thus decreasing latency

Sound Familiar? Yes that is basic Async compute right there
Proof:http://international.download.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/pdfs/GeForce_GTX_1080_Whitepaper_FINAL.pdf

Read page 14 on wards and note the first sentence in Page 15 (Confirms this is a hardware feature)

In short your whole point can be proven false, since you assumed that Pascal can only do pre-emption

More on Dynamic load balancing can be found in this video


If you read DOOM Vulkan patch notes They clearly say Async compute support for Pascal is still on the works and even without that Pascal Cards see 8- 12 % gain already

Hitman, AoTS are AMD Gaming Evolved titles , You can not use them for fair comparison just like RotTR is a gameworks title. And Quantum Break is the worst PC port ever and Total war is a bad title regardless of platform.
Which implies there are so far only two neutral DX12/Vulkan benchmarks
a) DOOM (Where pascal async is going to be enabled soon)
b) Time Spy

So I guess there is no conspiracy here , And If people are talking about favoring one architecture , then they should have ignored Hitman and AoTs long ago.

Double standards of people never seems to amaze me. It is like almost, people feel owe NVIDIA or AMD. While these are just two competing companies, who we pay to get a product , I have seen them as nothing more or less
post #44 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remij View Post

This is EXACTLY what I said was going to happen. AMD fans are gonna be relentless with this kind of stuff. Blaming developers for not fully taking advantage of every ounce of power that they feel their Radeon cards should gain from DX12 and Async.
Yea... (Click to show)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remij View Post

AotS is such an AMD biased title I'm not surprised.

But the reason why 1080 gains such small percent is because it's already well utilized.

But really we should start asking these developers why they say they are working with Nvidia on async when they aren't (I guess)?
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post #45 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post

Personally I think it should remain here.

This is pretty serious and should be spread across as many sites/forums as possible. 3dmark is widely used as a performance metric so if there's evidence that it favors one vendor over the other, people need to know and it needs to change.

My thoughts exactly. Just because @Randomdude is the "writer" doesn't make it any less newsworthy.
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post #46 of 253
Been reading this whole discussion about DX12, Async compute, and latest Time Spy fiasco. I honestly think this async compute thing has been way overblown and focusing only on things where it could provide benefits but neglecting potential negatives. I don't think this is entirely black and white matter.
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post #47 of 253
Funny how the media won't touch on this.
They tested a 1080p card in 4k, just to find an issue, yet here we have another one in open sky and no one reports.
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post #48 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

Hmmm, dunno what to think of this lol

Also dont know if this should be in the news section allready.
+1

It certainly does bring attention, which IMHO is good and a closer look into how Futuremark has done their benchmark should really be done as well as not placing too much importance on a single benchmark or game or other thing to compare GPUs. After all how many people are going to play 3DMark? The last time I did it was 2001 when it had a truck driving demo.
Personally I would like to see how the benchmark is coded, what it does and does not and as a result how that affects which architecture of GPUs and possibly leaves some underutilized or utilizes them in an inefficient way.
Quote:
Slomo4shO: specific paths needed for different HW/arch.
Definitely.
Edited by JackCY - 7/18/16 at 3:09pm
post #49 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post

Been reading this whole discussion about DX12, Async compute, and latest Time Spy fiasco. I honestly think this async compute thing has been way overblown and focusing only on things where it could provide benefits but neglecting potential negatives. I don't think this is entirely black and white matter.

It is doing what AMD said it will do, who does not wont extra fps in games when enabling AA?
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post #50 of 253
The GPUView screenshot is what I find most interesting. For both DOOM and AOTS it seems more compute tasks are being queued than Time Spy (2 vs 1), if I'm reading it correctly. I also sort of find it suspect that an Nvidia partner name is plastered in several places throughout the GPU tests.

Interesting post. With the larger performance advantage we've seen in some DX12 games and the recent Vulkan patch for DOOM, something seems off when it has been proven AMD has the superior architecture to take advantage of DX12 Features. Hope something interesting comes of this.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Benchmarks › Benchmarking Software and Discussion › [Various] Futuremark's Time Spy DirectX 12 "Benchmark" Compromised. Less Compute/Parallelism than Doom/Aots. Also...