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post #41 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

well cheap can also result in buying more of it, one for the main and the others for backing it up.
so "buy cheap buy twice" can make sense, depending on the purpose.

If your backup plan is to plan not to backup, then you have already failed.

Since you should always have a backup, no matter how expensive your drives are, that doesn't really factor into the "buy cheap twice or buy expensive once" argument.
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post #42 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

If your backup plan is to plan not to backup, then you have already failed.

Since you should always have a backup, no matter how expensive your drives are, that doesn't really factor into the "buy cheap twice or buy expensive once" argument.

no, i'm saying that cheaper drives can let you have more backups....

though i'm not so sure about using an SSD for backups.
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

Geez, so much whining on TLC....

No one looked at Tech Report's SSD endurance tests? the TLC planar lasted a looooong time, up to around 700 TB to 1PB of writes before they gave up the ghost.


and that's not even to say about 3D VNand's increased endurance, which applied to TLC, makes it last just as long as planar MLC or more.

So I don't see any issue with TLC, planar or VNAND, if the price is right.

Endurance is not the issue here (but it can be a concern, especially with 15nm parts). The bigger issue is read degradation (just look at the 840evo thread in here) and very poor write speed performance. 2d mlc has none of those issues.
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post #44 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

no, i'm saying that cheaper drives can let you have more backups....

though i'm not so sure about using an SSD for backups.

Ah yes absolutely use cheaper drives for backups. No point in spending a fortune on drives that will only see real use in the event of a main drive failure.

And yeah, SSDs are not well suited to backups, I agree. That said I'd still gladly take a cheaper "good enough" SSD over a more expensive one. The costs saved up front can buy a new SSD a few years down the line that will kick the poo out of the more expensive but now outdated option.
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post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by hojnikb View Post

Endurance is not the issue here (but it can be a concern, especially with 15nm parts). The bigger issue is read degradation (just look at the 840evo thread in here) and very poor write speed performance. 2d mlc has none of those issues.

2D MLC degrades in read performance just the same as TLC does. All drives have a firmware algorithm that compensates for voltage drop in cells as the cells age. The issue with the 840 series is the algorithm was not set right and didnt compensate properly. A firmware update fixed that on the 840 EVOs. During the time this was a huge deal, testing showed multiple MLC based drives suffered the same issue but nobody seemed to care because they were not the big name brand Samsung.
Write speed is lower for sure, but when the drive gets benched and we see it has a good enough speed then who cares? This isnt some max performance drive. If you want that, go buy the newest M.2 SSDs that are flagship performance models. This is a new mass produced cheap SSD for the mainstream and it fits that role very well.
Edited by EniGma1987 - 7/20/16 at 6:36am
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post #46 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hojnikb View Post

Endurance is not the issue here (but it can be a concern, especially with 15nm parts). The bigger issue is read degradation (just look at the 840evo thread in here) and very poor write speed performance. 2d mlc has none of those issues.

2D MLC degrades in read performance just the same as TLC does. All drives have a firmware algorithm that compensates for voltage drop in cells as the cells age. The issue with the 840 series is the algorithm was not set right and didnt compensate properly. A firmware update fixed that. During the time this was a huge deal, testing showed multiple MLC based drives suffered the same issue but nobody seemed to care because they were not the big name brand Samsung.
Write speed is lower for sure, but when the drive gets benched and we see it has a good enough speed then who cares? This isnt some max performance drive. If you want that, go buy the newest M.2 SSDs that are flagship performance models. This is a new mass produced cheap SSD for the mainstream and it fits that role very well.

840 EVO series only, original 840 buyers were ignored by Samsung, which is why I no longer use my 120GB 840 but this Sandisk SSD.

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post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post


>2D MLC degrades in read performance just the same as TLC does.

Complete bollocks, unless you can prove otherwise. I have yet to see any measurable drop in read performance on a MLC drive (any kind)

> All drives have a firmware algorithm that compensates for voltage drop in cells as the cells age.

Of course, but that can only help so much.

>The issue with the 840 series is the algorithm was not set right and didnt compensate properly. A firmware update fixed that.

Actually, voltage drift fix didn't really fix anything. It was only with a second update, where they introduced a sledgehammer approach (rewriting old files) when the issue was finally "fixed".

>testing showed multiple MLC based drives suffered the same issue but nobody seemed to care because they were not the big name brand Samsung.

Again, pls links to such tests.

>Write speed is lower for sure, but when the drive gets benched and we see it has a good enough speed then who cares? This isnt some max performance drive.

Well, writes can drop to something like 50MB/s in the worst case scenario. Even the crappiest HDDs can top that. Hell, even some better flash drives can top that.


Again ,what is the argument for TLC drives, when there are cheapo MLC drives, that cost the same or similar. When you eliminate theh cost factors, TLC really has nothing else going for it.
Thats why i'm still a firm supported of budget mlc drives until 3D TLC comes to market in a bigger scale (outside of samsung and MX300).
Edited by hojnikb - 7/20/16 at 6:17am
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post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

840 EVO series only, original 840 buyers were ignored by Samsung, which is why I no longer use my 120GB 840 but this Sandisk SSD.
Well, 840 vanilla was also affected by this, but not nearly as much (took way longer fro reads to drop to such levels).
I believe samsung just recently fixed this for 840 as well.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2478735
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post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

840 EVO series only, original 840 buyers were ignored by Samsung, which is why I no longer use my 120GB 840 but this Sandisk SSD.

lol. Funny cause Sandisk had the 2nd most problems on their drives that never got attention. Go look at people who posted during that 840 EVO thread to see people with other drives running tests.
And yes, only 840 EVO got a fix even though it affected all 840 drives frown.gif
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post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

If your backup plan is to plan not to backup, then you have already failed.

Since you should always have a backup, no matter how expensive your drives are, that doesn't really factor into the "buy cheap twice or buy expensive once" argument.

This is true, especially if the data is at all important.

FWIW, not all MLC is created equal. The reason I choose an MX200 to replace my old Samsung EVO 840 (whole other massive/negative thread here on OCN re. this model) is because Crucial is using relatively high-end MLC NAND in them. It's not quite enterprise grade, but is close.
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