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[pcgames] Zen engineering samples in the wild. Units up to the 32 core are being tested. - Page 5

post #41 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanhawk View Post

Yup. Zen really needs to push IPC up and deliver what they actually showed in slides.I saw a couple benchmarks where i3-6100 was beating an FX-6300 in games and Multithreaded performance..Ofcourse it's way newer architecture but still... mad.gif
In pure multithread performance or multitasking an i3 doesn't beat a FX 6300.
post #42 of 212
I'd bet the 8350 do very well in doom under vulkan
post #43 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviejams View Post

I'd bet the 8350 do very well in doom under vulkan

If you have one, it can do ok. If you need to buy one, its pointless.
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post #44 of 212
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Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

If you have one, it can do ok. If you need to buy one, its pointless.

yes I agree on that , if you are going to buy a new cpu it would have to be as skylake and it would be silly to buy a fx one over that , even an i3
post #45 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

nope nope nope. If it is sandy bridge IPC, that 8 core will need to sell at $200.

go tell that to newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117263
post #46 of 212
Pretty sure I saw this over on the S|A forums first. Granted, most of the industry guys there will not confirm anything concrete because that is their job on the line.

The bickering in their forums is just as bad as here but there seem to be more people with closer ties to the industry.
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post #47 of 212
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
In Jim Keller we trust
post #48 of 212
Well, it's been 10 months since Keller has left AMD.
I guess his part was done. Hopefully.
post #49 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1LL View Post

Calling FX trash is certainly an exaggeration. Especially considering the price.

The FX line's pricing is as low as it is precisely because it is trash.

Honestly, wouldn't one think that AMD would want to be able to have their 315mm² quad-module FX-83xx CPUs to sell for more than the ~$120 that they currently command at retail if they could? They've paid an awful lot of money to GloFo for those silicon wafers over the last 4-5 years with very little financial return to show for the cost of materials. In contrast, Intel manages to have their 122mm² i7-6700K CPUs sell for ~$350...
Edited by svenge - 7/21/16 at 6:00am
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post #50 of 212
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Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
 
 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

The time of single core performance is over. If you look at the latest games you will see that AMD's awful FX architecture matches and competes with Intel's far more expensive i7's because of their cores. Some games still suffer from developer laziness but a lot of newer games are coded to use up to eight threads. It's years late but finally FX' shine.

I am not saying the BD uArch is a success, it's a failure of both hardware and software as developers are just lazy and have refused to properly thread their software. Saying that, I do hope that Zen can at least match IB or even Haswell's IPS (IPC in itself is meaningless) so that we get advancement in CPU architecture. We've been stuck in this paradigm for too long and it's time we shifted.

You are not running multi threaded high volume scientific calculations on your home desktop. The most "multi threaded" software you are running, is your web browser, when you open several tabs.

Game engines are still more single core focused, even when they can run stuff parallel. Which means single core IPC is still important than 32 cores.
If you have to run 32 cores but reduce their IPC and clocks in order to keep it under check of TDP/heat, you will not get as good performance as a 8/16 or 4/8 which can have higher IPC and higher clocks.
It is also more problematic to OC a 32 core than a 2/4/8 core chips.

Once more next gen game engines comes out, and more parallel computation between a GPU and a CPU come out, we can talk about 32 core CPUs for the desktop.

Also, no, FX do not match i7 because of cores. They are slightly ok in most because of the higher clock speeds at stock (like the 9590 at 4.7ghz) which is only matching an i5 from 3-4 years ago (sometimes less than I3, regardless of cores).

Also, IPC vs IPS, IPC is not meaningless in any way. It only shows that you don't really understand how CPU works.
It falls on overall design. Each design has its own advantages and disadvantages.
A 32 core with low IPC and low clock speeds can have the same IPS as a 4 core CPU with high IPC and high clock speeds, but if you run a program which requires less cores and runs higher short calculations per thread, a high IPC/high core combo will be far, far better than 32 cores with low IPC. This is why in games, you can easily see skylake cpus equaling broadwell-e in games, while FX cpus are barely keeping up.

One last thing:
The FX 9590 has more MIPS than the 4770k (if you look at the 7-zip tests which are measuring MIPS, AMD state 28K for the 9590 vs 21K for the 4770k that 7-zip performance state). Yet the 4770k runs better in almost every test. Which overall means, IPS isn't the do all die all importance.

 

Cyrix chips had higher IPC than anything Intel and AMD could muster. In fact the IPC of the Cyrix 333 was so superior it was competing with the P3/K6 400 and 450 so why didn't it become the defacto standard? Because it couldn't clock high enough. By the time Intel and AMD had reached speeds of 500MHz Cyrix had been left behind and they couldn't create an architecture that could clock high enough to compete.

 

Another example. Clock your chip at 1MHz and see how it performs in comparison with mine. If IPS is irrelevant and all that matters is IPC then even at 1MHz your chip should perform better than mine at any speed. But it doesn't because IPC is irrelevant.

 

Last example: take your CPU and disable all but one core, clock it to its maximum speed (in the case of FX it's pretty damned high) and try to run GTA V on it. Then enable all cores and clock it at 3GHz and then run GTA V again. The IPC of the chips stays the same, the IPS changes dramatically. The single core uber IPS chip can't run GTA V, even with two cores enabled but the quad core can, simply because the IPS of the quad core, even with an efficiency of 70% is higher and so is load balancing. This has been proven with benchmarks of recent games showing that dual cores are simply left behind regardless of their IPC or IPS.

 

IPC Instructions Per Clock, which stands for performance at equal speed. IPS stands for Instructions Per Second. If IPC is all that matters then your chip will be better than mine even with mine clocked at its current 4.5GHz and yours at 1MHz. But it doesn't work like that, if it did Intel and AMD wouldn't have won the CPU war and Cyrix wouldn't have been consigned to the history books.

 

Who doesn't understand IPC vs IPS again?

 

Edit: MIPS in a single benchmark (7Zip is a synthetic benchmark as only the benchmark is fully threaded) is irrelevant to the overall performance of the chip. I never said the FX was superior to Intel's i7. If I paid almost 2.5x for an i7 over an FX and it didn't perform even slightly better I'd be furious. However, at the price these things command (i3 level) I think they're very competitive and benchmarks have shown that these chips can compete with chips that cost a lot more.

 

Even i5's cost more than FX83xx's but don't perform any better. And this is one reason I bought mine (apart from me being an ardent supporter of BDS). With this H220-X my CPU was still cheaper than an i7 4770/4790 but performs pretty close it it.


Edited by Liranan - 7/21/16 at 6:36am
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [pcgames] Zen engineering samples in the wild. Units up to the 32 core are being tested.