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[TechSpot] France gives Microsoft three months to stop Windows 10 from collecting "excessive" user data - Page 13  

post #121 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupitel View Post

Pretty scary reading, all these people who are perfectly okey with Microsft doing whatever they want. According to most here if I invent something I can ask for any price.

But that is the whole point.

If you invent something, something no one else have, lets say a cure for every cancer, you can basically, as long as laws allow you, charge whatever the hell you want.
You invented a pill that makes a person immortal and want to change 100,000,000$ for it even if it cost you to make it 50 cents? Go right ahead. No one is stopping you.

You can hate that as much as you want, but this is the whole point of free business practice.

Do you think it is ugly that apple, samsung, google, microsoft and pretty much every big company are skipping on taxes while every other small business is forced to pay big sums of their income while they struggle to stay afloat?
As long as the law allows them to operate like that (moral aside), they are free to do so. The same with every other business practice.

This is why microsoft are fully entitled to collect whatever data they want on you. The only thing they need to do is be up-front with it. From there, you are free to choose if you will use it or not. Your choice, and no one is forcing you do do it.

While you are absolutely correct, there is a bit more depth to the current situation. Let me expand a bit on the subject.

Remember that in current times many people have spent their young adult/adult lives (in education and specialization) preparing to work in [X field] by using a certain set of tools. Afterwards, they start working using those tools and thus bring food to their table.
Assuming the tools are programs and considering that the majority of such software is built for Microsoft's environment, you are more or less forced down this path unless you are willing to scratch everything and start anew.
There is often a free/open alternative, and even if it somehow covers 100% of the functionality needed, compatibility with the de-facto standard software in the business world is not guaranteed and nigh impossible.

Bottom line - it is still your choice and no one is forcing you, but is the choice you have to make actually fair?
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post #122 of 144
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Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Just because MS did a great job of becoming ubiquitous in the OS market does not mean that you have a right to tell them how to make their product.

So... you're saying that companies are allowed to do whatever they want if they have a monopoly? I hope you've never complained about Comcast then.
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post #123 of 144
This is pretty much what user agreements have become. Putting whatever language you want in a ToS doesn't make it right or even legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ23kosLFec
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post #124 of 144
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Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

I agree that capitalism is inherently flawed, and that our implementation is far from what we claim it to be. That however is not the point. Microsoft and other companies simply exist in the paradigm "we" created and enforce. The problems you have with their practices are really with our current market. If you want to change it, you need to change the cause, not the symptom. If you don't believe you can, or don't care to try to change the system, then complaining about companies using the system is a wasted effort.

I think you misunderstand me, I have zero problem with what Microsoft is doing. As I said, corporations are not good or bad, moral or immoral, they are amoral, they exist outside these concepts, they act to do one thing, make profit, ask any question with a Why. Why does corporation X do Y? The answer is always the same, profits.

My problem is with people who have abdicated their responsibility to keep an eye out. Corporations are like water, they expand and do what is allowed. To blame Microsoft is like blaming a dog for eating a stake you threw on the floor. If we allow them to do something, they will. If we allow them to have slaves, they will. Not because they are evil, or good, but because they it would increase their profits. Sounds far-fetched? Check out the nets across Apple buildings in China.
post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

But that is the whole point.

If you invent something, something no one else have, lets say a cure for every cancer, you can basically, as long as laws allow you, charge whatever the hell you want.
You invented a pill that makes a person immortal and want to change 100,000,000$ for it even if it cost you to make it 50 cents? Go right ahead. No one is stopping you.

You can hate that as much as you want, but this is the whole point of free business practice.

Do you think it is ugly that apple, samsung, google, microsoft and pretty much every big company are skipping on taxes while every other small business is forced to pay big sums of their income while they struggle to stay afloat?
As long as the law allows them to operate like that (moral aside), they are free to do so. The same with every other business practice.

This is why microsoft are fully entitled to collect whatever data they want on you. The only thing they need to do is be up-front with it. From there, you are free to choose if you will use it or not. Your choice, and no one is forcing you do do it.

I'm fine with that as long as you don't use public roads, public airways, public buildings, you don't get policemen to protect you, no armies abroad, nothing. Then yes, you can ask for any price for anything you invent. Until then hell no. You live in a society with hospitals, doctors, policemens, you got some form of public education. You live in a society that has allowed you to rise, you will still play by our rules or you can find an other country to sell your products.

P.s. The laws that benefits them are there because they helped write them.
Edited by Jupitel - 8/10/16 at 7:37am
post #126 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

But that is the whole point.

If you invent something, something no one else have, lets say a cure for every cancer, you can basically, as long as laws allow you, charge whatever the hell you want.
You invented a pill that makes a person immortal and want to change 100,000,000$ for it even if it cost you to make it 50 cents? Go right ahead. No one is stopping you.

You can hate that as much as you want, but this is the whole point of free business practice.

Do you think it is ugly that apple, samsung, google, microsoft and pretty much every big company are skipping on taxes while every other small business is forced to pay big sums of their income while they struggle to stay afloat?
As long as the law allows them to operate like that (moral aside), they are free to do so. The same with every other business practice.

This is why microsoft are fully entitled to collect whatever data they want on you. The only thing they need to do is be up-front with it. From there, you are free to choose if you will use it or not. Your choice, and no one is forcing you do do it.
As long as they follow laws sure but they are breaking a few. And so do all the big tax evasion corporations.
post #127 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

In what's being called by many French as "inhumane", they are threatening to reduce their lunch breaks to 3 hours.

Actually it's quite depressing. In France you get a minimum of 5 weeks paid vacation plus 11 paid holidays off.

The U.S. has less employee benefits than most third world countries.
Edited by aweir - 8/10/16 at 9:27am
post #128 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

You live in a capitalist economy. By its very definition, yes, you should be OK with companies charging any price they want for anything they provide, as you always have the option not to purchase at all. You can always buy from a competing company, or even be that competing company. If prices were really so absurd, surely someone would step up and put out a more reasonable alternative to capture that huge untapped market. The two (or more) companies would then compete for profits, driving higher efficiency, lower costs, added value, etc on both sides until one of the two companies can no longer sustain the race and exits the market, only to be replaced by someone else with a new take on the product or a better plan to sustain growth in a competitive market.

That is how capitalism works. If you have problems with that, or if that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, take it up with capitalism and it's supporters, not individual companies that are simply operating under the current paradigm.

That sounds all fine and well in theory. Communism sounds good in theory. We don't have a true capitalist society because there are so many sectors that don't have competition. We see more and more mergers of huge companies everyday it seems like broadband that has two or three real companies that can compete with each other. And more often than not, they have agreements with each other, not to service overlapping areas so they can keep their prices or raise them as they see fit. God for bid, you live in a rural area with only DSL available and they gouge you for the same prices that we pay for 45/50 Mbps. This country is more about oligarchy at best, monopoly at worst. This isn't the 50s anymore.
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post #129 of 144
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Originally Posted by rbarrett96 View Post

This is pretty much what user agreements have become. Putting whatever language you want in a ToS doesn't make it right or even legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ23kosLFec

And that imo, shouldn't be allowed. a ToS/EULA should only contain legal clauses, based on the region the ToS/EULA is for.
post #130 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragamemnon View Post

While you are absolutely correct, there is a bit more depth to the current situation. Let me expand a bit on the subject.

Remember that in current times many people have spent their young adult/adult lives (in education and specialization) preparing to work in [X field] by using a certain set of tools. Afterwards, they start working using those tools and thus bring food to their table.
Assuming the tools are programs and considering that the majority of such software is built for Microsoft's environment, you are more or less forced down this path unless you are willing to scratch everything and start anew.
There is often a free/open alternative, and even if it somehow covers 100% of the functionality needed, compatibility with the de-facto standard software in the business world is not guaranteed and nigh impossible.

Bottom line - it is still your choice and no one is forcing you, but is the choice you have to make actually fair?

I don't follow.

Code, basic code, is similar to almost any platform you are working on. yes there are differences, but overall you can transform code from one system to another if you are willing to do the work.
No, you don't need to scratch the whole toolset. If you learned to develop for platform X, you can manage if you learn the small bits and pieces you need to develop to platform Y.

Can adobe for example move to linux? Of course. Hell, they already have mac as well as windows sets, and mac is basically a linux system.
Will they do it? Chicken and egg scenario.
Same with a big amount of games. It all depends on whether they are willing to spend the time.

Regarding choice, yes and no. If you want to go main stream, you have to go main stream. You have to use steam as a platform, you have to use windows or one or two of the consoles if you go there, and you have to find that where is your target audience is. If has nothing to do about fairness. You can't force your market to one platform if your market doesn't want to move to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

As long as they follow laws sure but they are breaking a few. And so do all the big tax evasion corporations.

They are not breaking a single law as of right now. They are operating on the grey area where the law doesn't permit nothing, but just seems shabby at best. The law allows them to evade taxes by registering through other countries. If the law is amended, they will have to adjust, but it will not apply to anything before the law, so that law might as well be useless as long as they can keep doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupitel View Post

I'm fine with that as long as you don't use public roads, public airways, public buildings, you don't get policemen to protect you, no armies abroad, nothing. Then yes, you can ask for any price for anything you invent. Until then hell no. You live in a society with hospitals, doctors, policemens, you got some form of public education. You live in a society that has allowed you to rise, you will still play by our rules or you can find an other country to sell your products.

P.s. The laws that benefits them are there because they helped write them.

I have no idea what does that have to do with anything.

The entity of the company doesn't need doctors, police officers, hospitals etc. Those are tools for the employees who are local and pay their taxes. This doesn't come from the company tax.
Unless you want to turn all of those employees, who pay taxes, second class citizens?

And roads and buildings? They are paying their rent, they are also paying the road taxes which usually come through the fuel payments.

You are trying to twist it but as long as its legal, what you want that what they will do, are just science fiction.

And they helped write the laws? Who is to blame? The company who just want to maximise their profit, or the politician who took the money and helped to make that law?
That is just shabby, but not illegal unless you can prove they took bribes.

BTW, what do you think about the fact that one of the US ex presidents is getting a 200K$ for a 15-20 minutes speech, netting over 100M$ in 12 years just from speeches, all of those speeches of course are sponsored by this or that company. Are his words really worth 200K$ for 15 minutes of his time?
You can say that he is ripping what he planted.

This is an interesting fact, especially since his wife is currently running for presidency, and while she held a very high ranking government position, her husband raked almost 50M$ in speeches.

So just you understand who is actually at fault here, when you are pointing out fingers.
Business will do what business can. The ones who need to keep this in check, are not the businesses. The cat doesn't guard the cheese.
But if you allow the cat to hold a short leash on the rat, and it forces the rat to guard the cheese... well...

Also please note that this is happening all over. This is not just a US thing. Every countries politicians are being man-handled by a corporation at the end of some line.
Edited by Defoler - 8/11/16 at 2:47pm
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