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[ExtremeTech] Windows 10 gets one last, desperate nagware update - Page 8

post #71 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Yeah.... I've wanted to play with Windows 10 but to me it's about as useful as a Windows Phone at an Android conference, since they never fixed the real time clock bug - Intel did with the external clock generator. When I upgrade to Skylake (if I upgrade to it) I'll look into the pro version of Windows 10 so I at least have a semblance of control over how it runs... Free version just has too many restrictions, forced upgrades, and it's protective nature nuking perfectly valid programs you paid for and installed. At least that way on that specific hardware I'll be able to actually submit more than two benches to HWBot. Upgrading now for me is pointless as I'd be locked out of most benches in my gaming rig.
There is no such thing as free version. You will get the same junk, the only difference will be that you paid for it and you can deter updates for some time, but still no granular control like in win7. And of course you still get data mined and get "sponsored apps"(->ads) in your start menu...
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post #72 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

Even if all hardware released after today was incompatible with Windows 7, people like us would be happy with second-hand x99 and Titan X cards in 5 years!

There was a new GeForce driver release for Windows XP just a few days ago. GTX 950/960 supports it. Windows 7 will probably some good level of support for at least 10 more years, likely more though. Unlike XP, the driver model used in Vista/7/8/10 are pretty much the same. While this means missing on DX12, that is a GOOD thing. DX should die already. Anything for pushing OpenGL and Vulkan are more than welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post

Well here we are then, a couple of days from the set upgrade deadline and I still don't feel the urge or the need to upgrade.

I thought I would wait till the last second before I do a fresh install on my gaming computer to permit the most up to date version of Win 10, but alas reality is a *****.

  1. I don't foresee myself buying any games until 2077 is released from CDProject Red. I refuse to buy Marked-Up (CAD $80 for an AAA game)/DRM riddled games.
  2. The hardware scene has become a literal farce with price gauging galore at every tear, so I don't see me buying GPUs at reasonable prices which largely existed pre Titan/Fury craptastica.

So really no need for Win 10 at this time or ever.

I haven't bought any games in the past 12 months...only a few older titles I had already played before. It's not just that most AAA games these days are garbage, and frankly most indie titles too, but there are A LOT of good "old" games already. I just finished playing the Silent Hill quadrilogy, and the Hitman trilogy, and I already feel like playing the original Splinter Cell trilogy again, or Diablo 2, or Final Fantasy 1 through 12, or a myriad of other platforming, action-adventure and RPG games on the PS1, PS2, PS3, PC...literally hundreds of titles to play for the first time or play again...

Games like Fallout and Crysis are still in my backlog. Nearly 10 years since it came out, and I still have good games to play.
post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Yeah.... I've wanted to play with Windows 10 but to me it's about as useful as a Windows Phone at an Android conference, since they never fixed the real time clock bug - Intel did with the external clock generator. When I upgrade to Skylake (if I upgrade to it) I'll look into the pro version of Windows 10 so I at least have a semblance of control over how it runs...

What's the deal with Skylake and Windows 7? They're putting an artificial cap on support in 2017, but is that only for OEM systems or every Skylake based system? Will all updates be discontinued, or will it still get security ones?

Right now I have no PC, and I was considering Skylake for my main build, but I wonder if I should grab some haswell hardware while it's still available. I want at least one system with proper Windows 7 support with the latest hardware possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Free version just has too many restrictions, forced upgrades, and it's protective nature nuking perfectly valid programs you paid for and installed. At least that way on that specific hardware I'll be able to actually submit more than two benches to HWBot. Upgrading now for me is pointless as I'd be locked out of most benches in my gaming rig.

The "free" version is exactly the same as the bought version, unless you buy a retail license, in which case it's transferable (but otherwise identical).
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post #74 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


Source.

Microsoft is like that kid that throws a tantrum because he wants ice cream. Then he ends up spilling it all over your new car, and then nags you to buy him Office 360.
post #75 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

What's the deal with Skylake and Windows 7? They're putting an artificial cap on support in 2017, but is that only for OEM systems or every Skylake based system? Will all updates be discontinued, or will it still get security ones?

Right now I have no PC, and I was considering Skylake for my main build, but I wonder if I should grab some haswell hardware while it's still available. I want at least one system with proper Windows 7 support with the latest hardware possible.
The "free" version is exactly the same as the bought version, unless you buy a retail license, in which case it's transferable (but otherwise identical).

No idea on Skylake and Windows 7, I haven't bothered to look much into that myself. All I know is that you have to use a Z170 board and a Skylake processor if you want to do anything 2D for benching and HWBot on Windows 8 or 10.

As for the they tried to force it down your throat then call it free nagware disguised as free version vs the paid for one.... Paid for one you can at least continue using if your motherboard dies and you change it out for a slightly different one, and it's a lot easier to do a clean install. Also note that I mentioned Pro specifically - free version is an upgrade to the Home version in my case, where you don't have anywhere near the control, especially with things like Windows Update.

Biggest issue for me though, is that some of my audio programs STILL do not recommend upgrading to Windows 10 due to incompatabilities, and given that the Home version of Win10 loooooves to update things as soon as possible.... It's something that might get me to never update to Windows 10, unless the several month offset the Pro version allows can curb such to the point where companies have time to actually verify things will work, and at the same level of quality.

Or I might just bump up to Windows 8.1 with my next gaming rig and stay away from Windows 10. It's hard to decide at this specific moment.
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post #76 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Paid for one you can at least continue using if your motherboard dies and you change it out for a slightly different one,

Yes, assuming that you paid for the retail version, and not the OEM version which will have about the same transfer rights as the upgrade (theoretically none). Retail is a bit more expensive, so most people end up with OEM.

That said, there seems to be a new feature in beta that lets you tie the windows 10 license to your MSID, and then you can transfer it between systems (I think you can only do it X number of times, but it's probably enough for the average person's upgrade needs for several years).

Further, I've found OEM and upgrade windows licenses to be fairly flexible when it comes to activation. Two days ago I did this:

- PC with Windows 7 OEM installed, upgraded to Windows 10
- Motherboard in PC died
- z77 motherboard, so couldn't source replacement and had to replace board and CPU.
- Windows 10 activated immediately over the internet

And even if Windows 10 hadn't activated automatically, I daresay I could have achieved activation with the phone robot.

So I think people might be too concerned about the activation thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

and it's a lot easier to do a clean install.

That's not true anymore if you have your Windows 7/8 key, because you can enter it directly into the Win10 installer during a clean install.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Also note that I mentioned Pro specifically - free version is an upgrade to the Home version in my case, where you don't have anywhere near the control, especially with things like Windows Update

True.

The idiots should have left the former WU system in place. This is by far by biggest issue with Windows 10. You can, through a combination of Win10 Pro, GPEDIT, regedit, WUShowHide tool and the new WU GUI, get more-or-less the same degree of control you had in Windows 7/8, but it takes far more effort than it should, and the steps required seem to be changing constantly.
Edited by Oubadah - 7/26/16 at 5:04pm
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post #77 of 82
Im the only one stuck with a laptop that upgraded that the wireless card randomly stop working until manually reconnect and fail later again and again...


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post #78 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonami2 View Post

Im the only one stuck with a laptop that upgraded that the wireless card randomly stop working until manually reconnect and fail later again and again...


Lenovo b570. Pentium b920 upgraded to i7 2720qm

What is the wireless controller? I had the same thing happen on an older Dell laptop, and I just had to try various drivers until I found one that worked.
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post #79 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

What's the deal with Skylake and Windows 7? They're putting an artificial cap on support in 2017, but is that only for OEM systems or every Skylake based system? Will all updates be discontinued, or will it still get security ones?

Right now I have no PC, and I was considering Skylake for my main build, but I wonder if I should grab some haswell hardware while it's still available. I want at least one system with proper Windows 7 support with the latest hardware possible.
The "free" version is exactly the same as the bought version, unless you buy a retail license, in which case it's transferable (but otherwise identical).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

No idea on Skylake and Windows 7, I haven't bothered to look much into that myself. All I know is that you have to use a Z170 board and a Skylake processor if you want to do anything 2D for benching and HWBot on Windows 8 or 10.

I never really understood the support issue with Windows 7 and Skylake. I've never used Microsoft support for anything before, so why would I start now?

My understanding was that the Skylake chipsets have no native USB 2.0 support while Windows 7 seeks it upon installation, so installing Windows 7 on Z170 using a flash drive requires slipstreaming additional drivers that your motherboard manufacturer has to provide. In theory, there could be compatibility issues with future Windows Updates, but that would also assume that I trust letting Windows Update automatically take care of my computer, which I don't.

I would seek out Windows 8.1 Pro to squeak out a few more years if necessary rather than get Windows 10. I was prepared to turn off the telemetry settings and tweak Windows 10 extensively as needed, but I've chosen to avoid it on principle now. I hate the way Microsoft has gone about this business over the last year. Until 10 actually becomes the minimum requirement for software applications and hardware drivers, I have no intention of putting it on my machines.
Edited by Snakecharmed - 7/26/16 at 8:36pm
    
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post #80 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakecharmed View Post


I never really understood the support issue with Windows 7 and Skylake. I've never used Microsoft support for anything before, so why would I start now?

My understanding was that the Skylake chipsets have no native USB 2.0 support while Windows 7 seeks it upon installation, so installing Windows 7 on Z170 using a flash drive requires slipstreaming additional drivers that your motherboard manufacturer has to provide. In theory, there could be compatibility issues with future Windows Updates, but that would also assume that I trust letting Windows Update automatically take care of my computer, which I don't.

I would seek out Windows 8.1 Pro to squeak out a few more years if necessary rather than get Windows 10. I was prepared to turn off the telemetry settings and tweak Windows 10 extensively as needed, but I've chosen to avoid it on principle now. I hate the way Microsoft has gone about this business over the last year. Until 10 actually becomes the minimum requirement for software applications and hardware drivers, I have no intention of putting it on my machines.

Yes, well there are two things; the USB driver issue and the future updates issue. I'm talking about the updates, which I incorrectly said ended in 2017, but they've extended it to 2018 (oh, how generous). Why the hell can't they just support it until 2020 like they promised. There's clearly no legitimate reason why they can't, and 2018 is a purely arbitrary deadline given that they can shift it around like that.

After further reading, as far as I can tell Windows 7/8 on Skylake+ systems will cease to receive security updates after 17 July 2018, correct me if I'm wrong. In that case, I'm going to try and grab a spare Haswell system while I still can.
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Samsung SSD 840 PRO 256GB Noctua NH-U12S (+NF-S12A PWM) Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1/Windows 10 Pro x64 Super Flower Leadex Gold 750W 
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Corsair Carbide Air 540 (+3x NF-S12A FLX) Asus Xonar Essence STX 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i7-6700K 4GHz Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Designare F23a Corsair LPX 32GB CMK32GX4M4A2133C13 Samsung SSD 840 PRO 512GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung SSD 840 PRO 512GB Noctua NH-U12S (+NF-S12A PWM) Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1/Windows 10 Pro x64 EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 
Case
Silverstone Fortress FT02 (+4x NF-A14 PWM) 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [ExtremeTech] Windows 10 gets one last, desperate nagware update