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[Twitter] Jen-Hsun introduces the new NVIDIA TITAN X - Page 185  

post #1841 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

Volta might give Nvidia that holy grail - hardware async/ACEs etc. wink.gif

that would be the biggest increase (expect more DX12 in 2017/2018 than in 2016), not HBM2 bandwidth and not even the little bit of extra cores that using HBM2 can allow

of course Im talking the "real" Volta, not a refined Pascal v2


but if the only difference will be HBM2 then I agree thats not really worth it for waiting for Pascal, it doesnt need HBM2 nearly as much as GCN seems to need it



That's assuming that we get Async Compute on a hardware level in 2017. I can ALMOST guarantee you that we are just getting Pascal V2 in 2017 and not "true" Volta architecture. Yes, Nvidia is in an awfully big hurry releasing GPUs so quickly, but all in all this is just 100% repeating the 600/700 series. We get the very first card on a new node, both of which are x80 cards (680 was first 28nm card, 1080 is first 16nm card) along with an x70 to go with it (670 and 1070); then a few months later you get the TITAN on a larger but not "full" die (GK110 original TITAN for 600 series, and this TITAN X GP102 for the 1000 series); then the 600 series saw the 780 and 780 TI come out 9-10 months later in 2013 and there was barely any increase in performance over the TITAN despite 780/780 TI being on "GK210" instead of GK110. This means that in all likelihood, just like how 700 series was still Keplar, we will see GP100 (or GP202 perhaps?) become the new "GK210" becoming identical comparitive to GP102 as the GK210 was to GK110.

The GTX 780 only had 2,304 cuda cores and 3GB 384 bit GDDR5, whereas the TITAN X had 2,688 cuda cores and 6GB 384 bit GDDR5; and the 780 TI by comparison (almost a year after TITAN release) only had 2,880 cuda cores and still 3GB of 384 bit GDDR5.

Think about that for a minute. Everyone here and on all other tech forums was all in a roar in 2015 about how the TITAN X was SUCH a bad deal when the 980 TI was literally 3-5% slower in real world performance for games, video rendering via GPU accel. etc..etc... and that was a 256 cuda core difference! (3,072 on TITAN X vs 2,816 on 980 TI). The difference between the original TITAN and 780 TI was only a measly 128 cuda cores!! Go look at benchmarks, they literally performed IDENTICAL to each other once you raised the TITAN clockspeed to match the slightly higher stock clock speed on the 780 TI. Both cards overclocked the same, both performed the same when overclocked etc..etc.. but the TITAN had more VRAM so it had an advantage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

maybe, but 10% its still 10%


for a 10% increase via raw power you would need ~15%+ more cores, right ? as well as some extra bandwidth

I really doubt that even Hardware Async will give 10% real world performance boost. More like 6-7% at most honestly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

10% + HBM + some small cores = +25% as we have seen in each generational leap


I dont find anything surprising.

Yeah no. That's absurdly bloated. If Async gives 10%, (which is still a VERY liberal estimate and probably a few percent over what it'll actually give) you are definitely still not seeing 25% increase over TITAN XP. 256 core increase gives like 3-4% increase historically like with the 980 TI vs TITAN X Maxwell etc.. so i can't see the core difference giving more than 5% real world performance at most.

And we are at a point where memory bandwidth is getting SERIOUS diminishing returns here. The 384 bit GDDR5X on this TITAN XP gives it 480 GB/s bandwidth; that's nearly exactly what HBM1 gave on the Fury-X!! The Fury-X with its HBM got 512 GB/s bandwidth; and once you overclock the GDDR5X on this TITAN XP to 11,000mhz like you can also easily do to the GTX 1080 (my MSI Gaming X 1080 hits 11,300mhz no problem with a core clock of 2,138mhz too) this increases bandwidth to 530 GB/s.

HBM2 would only give just over 700 GB/s or so, which isn't THAT much more than 530 GB/s of this TITAN. And like i said, we're hitting diminishing returns HARD here. It's basically turning into the same thing as 16x vs 8x PCi-e slot bandwidth. dozens of tests have shown that moving from 16x to 8x on your GPU pci slot gives like half a frame per second difference if that. This is because the bandwidth is exceeding the memory requirement of the games.

Think about bandwidth like the SIZE of the "pipe" that water is travelling through. The GPU is the pump pushing the water, and the water itself is the data travelling through the memory "pipe". If you have two square inch of "water" diameter moving through the pipe and a 1 inch pipe, you will see definite benefit from increasing the pipe size to 2 inch pipe width because more water can flow through at once increase the speed of water reaching the destination. however, if you then increase the pipe size to THREE inches with still only two square inches of water travelling through; you find that its just wasteful and provides nearly no benefit as the extra pipe space is just empty. See what i mean?


Overall even if Async gives 10%, you're looking at roughly ~15-16% at BEST over this current TITAN XP. And in all likelihood it'll be more like 11-12% as Async isn't as important as people think outside of Ashes of the Singularity.
 
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post #1842 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Not true, the P6000 is only using GP102 just like the TITAN XP, just with 24GB G5X VRAM http://www.anandtech.com/show/10516/nvidia-announces-quadro-pascal-family-quadro-p6000-p5000

You guys are getting all in a tizzy fit for nothing here. Literally the ONLY thing GP100 has over GP102 is double/mixed precision capability (FP64 and FP16) even the Tesla P100 which uses GP100 STILL only has 3,584 FP32 active cuda cores on it.

The fact of the matter is, there was bad yields this time. 16nm wasn't really ready for use yet; but Nvidia couldn't dare release yet another 28nm gen when we were supposed to be moving to 10nm by 2018. These bad yields are FAR worse the larger the chip is; GP100 ended up with only 3,584 FP32 cores, and double precision capability went down from expected 1,920 to 1,792. This means that even a full GP102 die would simply give you basically the exact same (within a couple percent) single precision gaming, rendering etc.. performance as this GP102 TITAN X, just with scientific/physics etc.. double/mixed precision added on which is useless to 99% of us.

But that's not possible to just re-design like that as this TITAN and the Quadro P6000 are literally coming from bad yield silicon from the wafer originally designed to make the Tesla P100. The silicon that is on the edge of the wafer often ends up with some transistor and cores not functioning 100%, so rather than trashing them and losing money they cut them a bit and resell as cheaper product. The fact of the matter is, these rumors of "volta" in 2017 summer are literally just going to be GP100 after they finally figure out how to get better yield on 16nm; i'm not even sure that it'll be CALLED Volta, more than likely it'll just follow the same pattern the 600/700 series did.

The original 600 series TITAN had 2,688 cuda cores, and ran on "GK110", but even the magical "GK210" only produced 2,880 cuda cores on the 780 TI and the TITAN BLACK. See what i'm getting at here? The "1180 TI" will likely only have a couple hundred more cores than this TITAN X Pascal chip, and HBM probably...that's it. So hate to break the bubble, but we're not getting anything significantly better than TITAN XP until 2018 or so.


TL:DR = TITAN XP has same FP32 performance as GP100. "16nm Volta in 2017" will only provide ~200-300 cuda core increase on nearly identical architecture, just with HBM; i.e. nothing special over GP102. In summary, this chip isn't as bad as people think.

P6000 has 3840 cuda cores. It's the full chip.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-graphics-with-pascal.html
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post #1843 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by axiumone View Post

P6000 has 3840 cuda cores. It's the full chip.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-graphics-with-pascal.html


No, It's still GP102, not GP100 like he was claiming. He was saying that this TITAN was a fully cut down chip akin to a "GTX 570" instead of a 580. Which is nonsense, as even the full GP100 only has 3,584 active FP32 cuda cores; and this P6000 simply gains a few more FP32 cores by dropping all of the extra FP64 and FP16 capability that GP100 had in exchange for increasing to 3,840 FP32 cores. It's literally the EXACT same die as the TITAN XP, so it doesn't even really qualify as "full" in comparison to the TITAN.

Both are full GP102, but the Quadro sacrifices some things that the TITAN keeps in order to get its 3,840 FP32 core count. Not to mention the Quadro P6000 only has 9000mhz memory and a lower 432 GB/s bandwidth compared to the 10000mhz + 480 GB/s bandwidth on the TITAN X.

Don't be surprised if this Quadro turns out to have 256 cores (1 SM unit) disabled just like the Tesla P100 had; tech news is SERIOUSLY sloppy this generation, you can look at five different sites and get three different spec readouts for the same card. Nobody is reporting info correct lately.

The difference between 3,584 cores and 3,840 cores is literally next to nothing though. The larger the core count the less percent difference a small increase in cores gives (i.e. diminishing returns). For example, the 980 TI had 256 cores less than the original TITAN X maxwell card; (3072 on TITAN X and 2816 on 980 TI) but you saw a 3-5% difference at most. With a core count significantly larger of 3,584 vs 3,840 you will see even LESS difference between the two numbers. You're looking at maybe 2 - 2.5% or so...FAR from the difference between a GTX 570 and 580 lol. Not to mention Quadro's don't do nearly as well in, say Gaming and such.
 
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post #1844 of 3587
meh I just enjoy speculating on the new GPUs

IMHO if you actually need Titan XP level power right now and can afford $1200 - no reason not to buy it now in August .. waiting for something hypothetical faster later seems poinltess to me when you can enjoy 4K@60 on 1 GPU in a few weeks .. waiting just for sake of HBM2 alone for Pascal is certainly not worth it

if you're in no hurry though then waiting till Q1/Q2 2017 can be good


me personally Im waiting Volta X70/X80 no matter what (real Volta, not Pascal v2) and until it drops - the 1080 will serve me perfectly fine whether its for 1 year or 2 years
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post #1845 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

meh I just enjoy speculating on the new GPUs

IMHO if you actually need Titan XP level power right now and can afford $1200 - no reason not to buy it now in August .. waiting for something hypothetical faster later seems poinltess to me when you can enjoy 4K@60 on 1 GPU in a few weeks .. waiting just for sake of HBM2 alone for Pascal is certainly not worth it

if you're in no hurry though then waiting till Q1/Q2 2017 can be good


me personally Im waiting Volta X70/X80 no matter what (real Volta, not Pascal v2) and until it drops - the 1080 will serve me perfectly fine whether its for 1 year or 2 years


im calling it this card Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
cant
run witcher 3 full @60fps on 4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeUvZ5FcKU

Not with 20-30% increase over 1080....

Gains are even worst on 4k
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 7/27/16 at 6:56am
post #1846 of 3587
well thats a bummer

guess 4K@60 people will need to shell out $2400 then rolleyes.gif
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post #1847 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

No, It's still GP102, not GP100 like he was claiming.

When did I claim that it was GP100? P6000 is full GP102 and Titan XP is cut down GP102. GP102 is the current flagship product for the consumer lineup...
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post #1848 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by meson1 View Post

I was only joshing. biggrin.gif Though that is how the mind works.

Like you I will be buying a Pascal card for my new build. My current Sandybridge-E rig uses a 780 Ti, so I will be jumping two generations. I don't know what Pascal card it will be yet, 1080? Dual 1080s? Titan XP? But whatever I choose, I will not be buying 16nm Volta (unless a really good exceptional reason arises).

I buy to fulfill requirements; not just to have the latest and fastest. My requirement right now is genuine 4K performance in silence, hence it's going under water.

I will maybe going water too. Me too i buy to fulfill requirement, not to get the fastest, i waited 16 months already for 4k60fps, im tired of waiting. I have a 4k monitor and a 4k samsung uhd js8500 waiting to play 4k60fps. smile.gif
post #1849 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

1070's would work too but they're scarce and still over $400 when available.

If you are going to change from those Titans you are going to need Titan XP level of performance to even bother. We just have to wait for a card to come out and dethrone the Titan X for much less. HD 290 did it back in the day for $400. I can wait 6-8 months for 2-3x cheaper card.
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post #1850 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

im calling it this card Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
cant
run witcher 3 full @60fps on 4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeUvZ5FcKU

Not with 20-30% increase over 1080....

Gains are even worst on 4k

I didnt check the entire video, but i dont play with AA and i disabled hairworks. With that i got the same fps than 1080 with my 980ti, so i dont stress. Titan xp in witcher3 with no AA and no hairworks will be 60fps in 4k, im sure of it
Edited by renejr902 - 7/27/16 at 8:30am
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