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post #1881 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

You can keep a GPU for 2-3 years too if you turn down settings/resolution. wink.gif

But yes I can agree that GPUs do age much faster than CPUs.

I am tired of the X79 platform. I have been on it since the 3820 was released(going on 5 years!). That's the only reason I have a desire to upgrade my cpu/motherboard. I wish gpus lasted like cpus.
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post #1882 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

A niche item in a niche market would be extremely price inelastic, and would explain the current situation actually.
Actually nVidia denied refunds, and only the lucky ones who bought from Amazon or fought tooth and nail with Newegg got a refund. Neither nVidia nor Gigabyte even bothered replying to my emails.
I'm more likely to believe that idea was canned because the RX 480 4GB @ $200, even with 10% less performance would just absolutely kill it. (or there really never was a 1060 3GB planned in the first place)

Given that nVidia barely gave a crap about the whole 970 issue beyond doing PR damage control, I highly doubt "we" made them change their minds.
Well once again, this approach only works if the majority is on board. Basically what I'm getting at is, the vocal minority will not have an impact on the price, unless said vocal minority manages to create long lasting bad PR for nVidia.

And judging by the responses in this thread, that ain't happening anytime soon because "there's too many people that will pay the "small" price hikes each generation to have the latest and greatest", to quote one of my PMs. (it's funny because I had this exact conversation in a string of PMs, only I was the one saying we all needed to boycott the card)

You can't have supply-demand concerns the same way in a niche market, when the price is already marked up for niche value. The supply is low and the demand is low, which is why it is a challenge to breach said markets.

The fact that they had a PR campaign was a huge success for the consumer. No corporation will outwardly claim fault because of legal reasons, but ask any GTX 970 owner whether or not they've been burned. They're exercising their discontent by being more watchful, even if they didn't get a refund. NV has been warned.

Bad PR goes a long way, especially when you're a marketshare majority. Being in marketshare majority is dangerous place to be, because any small failure can cause long lasting customer loss of trust. Just look at what happened with Bulldozer. (Not a majority, but PR was quite bad and look at all of the marketshare lost, even among budget buyers)

They would never tell us that they had a GTX 1060 3GB card planned in the first place. That would look bad, wouldn't it?

I have to say, I am pretty cynical about the present state of this kind of consumerism, especially in PC gaming today. But, you have to believe you can do some good first to be able to do it. This isn't just some silly boycott, its how free market capitalism should work.

By defending the corporation in any way, shape, or form, you are doing the PR campaign for them. And, they don't even pay you. If anything, they just keep pushing.

Defense can even be saying "because it's a duopoly, there needs to be better competition to have better prices". That's exactly what JHH said in defense of his company's pricing.
Edited by junkman - 7/27/16 at 2:32pm
post #1883 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

I am tired of the X79 platform. I have been on it since the 3820 was released(going on 5 years!). That's the only reason I have a desire to upgrade my cpu/motherboard. I wish gpus lasted like cpus.

You would upgrade CPUs if they where better. Look at the failure Broadwell-E are in terms of overclocking.
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post #1884 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkman View Post

By defending the corporation in any way, shape, or form, you are doing the PR campaign for them. And, they don't even pay you. If anything, they just keep pushing.

We talked about some of this the other day, I think earlier in this thread. It is one thing to support the company by purchasing their product. It is entirely another to argue in favor of everything the company does. Like you know the people that justify (FOR THE COMPANY) the raising of prices. I have to question if those people are shills or have some stock in said company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

You would upgrade CPUs if they where better. Look at the failure Broadwell-E are in terms of overclocking.

This is true as well. That's why everyone with any common sense better be in favor of a AMD always being at least a little competitive on the gpu side. Otherwise we will start seeing the same performance increases from Nvidia gpus from generation to generation that we see from Intel with their cpus.
Edited by criminal - 7/27/16 at 2:53pm
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post #1885 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post

Jen-Hsun is a liar. It has nothing to do with the lack of competition from AMD.
Are u serious ?
If nv cardz was bad compared to AMD ones, they will cheaper than AMD ones.
AMD allow nVidia to out Titan brands and 1000$+ cardz. Every time there's no opponent.
With this new 14nm node, AMD only offer a 232mm² when nVidia already have 610mm² (PRO) , 471mm², 314mm² and 200mm², all with better performance and efficiency.
Really easy to understand why AMD is struggling hard and can only play the "for the mass", "We're the 99%" "Join the rebellion"... themes.
nVidia advantage is really massive now. More than never.
post #1886 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

I am tired of the X79 platform. I have been on it since the 3820 was released(going on 5 years!). That's the only reason I have a desire to upgrade my cpu/motherboard. I wish gpus lasted like cpus.

Well, if GPUs also only improved 5-10% per year, then they'd have a much longer shelf life.

I remember saying given a choice between 20-30% improvement each generation but with rising prices or 5-10% improvement but with constant prices, I'd much prefer the latter option, and was promptly told to hand over my enthusiast card. frown.gif

But at the end of the day, if I really could choose, I'd still pick the second option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkman View Post

You can't have supply-demand concerns the same way in a niche market, when the price is already marked up for niche value. The supply is low and the demand is low, which is why it is a challenge to breach said markets.

The fact that they had a PR campaign was a huge success for the consumer. No corporation will outwardly claim fault because of legal reasons, but ask any GTX 970 owner whether or not they've been burned. They're exercising their discontent by being more watchful, even if they didn't get a refund. NV has been warned.

Bad PR goes a long way, especially when you're a marketshare majority. Being in marketshare majority is dangerous place to be, because any small failure can cause long lasting customer loss of trust. Just look at what happened with Bulldozer. (Not a majority, but PR was quite bad and look at all of the marketshare lost, even among budget buyers)

They would never tell us that they had a GTX 1060 3GB card planned in the first place. That would look bad, wouldn't it?

I have to say, I am pretty cynical about the present state of this kind of consumerism, especially in PC gaming today. But, you have to believe you can do some good first to be able to do it. This isn't just some silly boycott, its how free market capitalism should work.

By defending the corporation in any way, shape, or form, you are doing the PR campaign for them. And, they don't even pay you. If anything, they just keep pushing.

Defense can even be saying "because it's a duopoly, there needs to be better competition to have better prices". That's exactly what JHH said in defense of his company's pricing.

There was clearly sufficient demand for a $999 card that nVidia kept selling it and people kept buying it.

Unfortunately, nVidia has gotten to the point where nothing short of a Bulldozer style disaster would have any impact whatsoever. Remember Bumpgate from 8-9 years ago? That was a much, much worse issue than the 970 vram fiasco, and nVidia barely had 50% of the market back then, and still it had minimal impact on nVidia.

The point about the 1060 3GB is that we would never know if it was even a thing to begin with. Them not telling us about it =/= they designed it, then recanted due to the backlash. I mean really this is nVidia we're talking about here. They tried to sell Titan Z for $3K, and when that failed, they quietly slashed prices by 50% 6 months later.

I'm not defending anybody, simply being realistic about the situation. I mean I get it, we as consumers should boycott the card and tell JHH to go sniff a dog's ass, but that's simply too idealistic for more reasons than one. I mean, half the thread is people trying to reason with others on why they should hold off on buying such a card, and you can see how that all went.
post #1887 of 3587
It was better when they gave us real flagships under the X80 moniker.

GTX 480 (GF100, $499)

year later

GTX 580 (GF110 revision of GF100, $499)

It did only come with a 15-20% improvement but that's to be expected since we went from GF100-->GF110

Titan only seemed like a good improvement because we went from midrange (GK104) to high end (GK110) instead of high end to high end like Fermi.

I'd rather have true flagships with a minor improvement with the revision than the crap we have going on now.
post #1888 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by renejr902 View Post

I will maybe going water too. Me too i buy to fulfill requirement, not to get the fastest, i waited 16 months already for 4k60fps, im tired of waiting. I have a 4k monitor and a 4k samsung uhd js8500 waiting to play 4k60fps. smile.gif

Not the fastest but only requirements... lol I like the twist on perspective. Artificially chasing such requirements is setting one up to need the fastest. For example my requirements of 2560x1080@75 are modest and frees me from such chases. Next step up will be VR 2.0 because everything today still sucks.
post #1889 of 3587
Just did some deep thinking,(ouch), and I have decided to buy the 1080Classified ot the MSI Seahawk EK edition. why? since nVIDIA is claiming that this gpu isn't "aimed.." at gamers, you KNOW that their WILL be a GTX 102 chip released, sooner or later....hopefully, a grand or less..
Edited by carlhil2 - 7/27/16 at 3:36pm
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post #1890 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

That's why everyone with any common sense better be in favor of a AMD always being at least a little competitive on the gpu side. Otherwise we will start seeing the same performance increases from Nvidia gpus from generation to generation that we see from Intel with their cpus.

I am still not worried about GPU advancement when more cores still guarantees better performance unlike CPU side where you have to have fine balance between good IPC n number of cores depending on applications.
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