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post #1961 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

It especially interesting to compare 980 Ti to 980 and scale it with pascal.



While the 1080 is simply 980 with pascal makeover. Titan X is the same 980 Ti pascal makeover, but rebranded as Titan and cost 80%-100% more.
now it has just come to me, why is he comparing a full chip monster like 980Ti with a 1080. They're not the same tier. High-end vs "mid-range +" class. It's like measuring rx480 vs 390X for IPC, 390X is gonna win clock for clock, with a huge lead.


I think TXM vs 980 is gonna be better than TXP vs 1080. TXP is cut down, TXM is a full die. Additionally, I think 1080 is pretty fast for x80 card. For example, let's see 380X CF vs 980 and RX480 CF vs 1080.








It took a 980Ti for Maxwell generation to beat two R9 380X cards, now 1080 is beating CF RX480.
Edited by Klocek001 - 7/28/16 at 7:15am
post #1962 of 3587
The performance gap between TXP and GTX 1080 is the same as GTX 980 to 980 Ti.




Therefore the gap between TXM vs 980 is definitely bigger than 1080 to TXP.
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post #1963 of 3587
I don't get how people don't see this is a marked up 1080Ti.
post #1964 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somasonic View Post

Does anyone think there will be a Ti this time around? What would they base it on and what would the likely specs be?

I'd love one of these Titans (it's the 1080 Ti I was waiting on/expecting) but at this point I can't afford it. Time to start saving I guess and see where the market goes because as I see it there's no realistic upgrade for my 980 Ti in sight.

There will definitely be a 1080ti, or whatever they call it, meaning a GTX branded card using GP102. Every time nvidia has launched a Titan, Kepler and Maxwell based versions, end users have made the same mistaken prediction that there will not be a cheaper GTX based card. That Titan will be some sort of exclusive, and every time they've been wrong. I've bought all the Titan cards and made the same mistaken thought. I'll be buying one of these new ones, but won't kid myself there won't be a cheaper and just as fast GP102 GTX card in AIB form before the holidays of this year.

This Titan isn't even the full GP102. Some of the shaders are disabled. We know nvidia has fully working dies, but right now they are reserving them for their Tesla card that they've already announced. Just like there are dies that came off the assembly line not completely functional that will have to go in the new Titan X, there are going to be dies that are not even functional enough for the Titan X, that will go in a GTX GP102 card. This is exactly what happened with Kepler Titan to 780. Then later fully functional 780ti and Titan Black. It's going to happen again. Nvidia has been competing against themselves for a while now and the market for a $1200 gaming card is extremely small, but the market for the GP102 1080ti for hundreds of dollars less will be much, much larger.

Buying one of these new Titans under the assumption this is the only entry to GP102 is setting yourself up for disappointment, history says this is not how Nvidia will be handling their product stack. By the holidays of this year a GP102 GTX card will be on the market. I doubt it will even be that long. I expect it will release in October, probably for $800 MSRP and once again be just as fast with overclocking as the Titan X because you can get it in AIB non reference form.
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post #1965 of 3587
Quote:
The fact of the matter is, this TITAN X is STILL 1024 cores more than the x80 model; which is the EXACT same as the 1024 cores that the 3072 core Maxwell TITAN X had over the 2048 core 980. That is why it will perform very close to identical to how the TITAN X did over the 980 in this comparison of 1080 vs TITAN XP.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1060/26.html
^ Titan X is only ~25-30% over 980 stock vs stock .. 30%+ at best

3072 / 2048 = x1.5 more cores = 30% more perf
3584 / 2560 = x1.4 more cores = ~25% more perf


Math never lies smile.gif
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post #1966 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourplumps View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somasonic View Post

Does anyone think there will be a Ti this time around? What would they base it on and what would the likely specs be?

I'd love one of these Titans (it's the 1080 Ti I was waiting on/expecting) but at this point I can't afford it. Time to start saving I guess and see where the market goes because as I see it there's no realistic upgrade for my 980 Ti in sight.

There will definitely be a 1080ti, or whatever they call it, meaning a GTX branded card using GP102. Every time nvidia has launched a Titan, Kepler and Maxwell based versions, end users have made the same mistaken prediction that there will not be a cheaper GTX based card. That Titan will be some sort of exclusive, and every time they've been wrong. I've bought all the Titan cards and made the same mistaken thought. I'll be buying one of these new ones, but won't kid myself there won't be a cheaper and just as fast GP102 GTX card in AIB form before the holidays of this year.

This Titan isn't even the full GP102. Some of the shaders are disabled. We know nvidia has fully working dies, but right now they are reserving them for their Tesla card that they've already announced. Just like there are dies that came off the assembly line not completely functional that will have to go in the new Titan X, there are going to be dies that are not even functional enough for the Titan X, that will go in a GTX GP102 card. This is exactly what happened with Kepler Titan to 780. Then later fully functional 780ti and Titan Black. It's going to happen again. Nvidia has been competing against themselves for a while now and the market for a $1200 gaming card is extremely small, but the market for the GP102 1080ti for hundreds of dollars less will be much, much larger.

Buying one of these new Titans under the assumption this is the only entry to GP102 is setting yourself up for disappointment, history says this is not how Nvidia will be handling their product stack. By the holidays of this year a GP102 GTX card will be on the market. I doubt it will even be that long. I expect it will release in October, probably for $800 MSRP and once again be just as fast with overclocking as the Titan X because you can get it in AIB non reference form.

There is more likely to be a TITAN BLACK following this than a Ti. A Ti would be what, 15% over the 1080? at any price between the 1080 and Titan it'd be underwhelming and make both cards better choices.
post #1967 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLCLimax View Post

There is more likely to be a TITAN BLACK following this than a Ti. A Ti would be what, 15% over the 1080? at any price between the 1080 and Titan it'd be underwhelming and make both cards better choices.

That's not how they do things. They don't slot the ti in the middle. Look at 980ti vs Titan X Maxwell. TX Maxwell was only 5% faster than 980ti, reference vs reference card. AIB 980ti was faster than Titan X. The same performance hierarchy was seen with Titan, 780 and 680. The 1080ti will be just a little behind Titan X Pascal. There is no real doubt on this. 1080ti will be out this year and will be barely slower than Titan X Pascal. This is how nvidia has been doing things for 2 generations now and will do the same thing now in this 3rd one. The competitive climate has been the same this entire time with nvidia solidly in the lead.

Anyone balking at TX Pascal's price should just wait a few months. There will be a cheaper GP102 this year.

Sure there will be a full chip card at some point, they already have them and will be selling them in Teslas. Once the process matures they'll release gaming cards using them. It could be Titan Black, or just like Kepler, they just release it straight to GTX and then do a Titan later. The market is far too large for GTX cards to ignore it. The market on Titan cards is too small to only sell GP102 there.
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post #1968 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourplumps View Post

There will definitely be a 1080ti, or whatever they call it, meaning a GTX branded card using GP102. Every time nvidia has launched a Titan, Kepler and Maxwell based versions, end users have made the same mistaken prediction that there will not be a cheaper GTX based card. That Titan will be some sort of exclusive, and every time they've been wrong. I've bought all the Titan cards and made the same mistaken thought. I'll be buying one of these new ones, but won't kid myself there won't be a cheaper and just as fast GP102 GTX card in AIB form before the holidays of this year.

This Titan isn't even the full GP102. Some of the shaders are disabled. We know nvidia has fully working dies, but right now they are reserving them for their Tesla card that they've already announced. Just like there are dies that came off the assembly line not completely functional that will have to go in the new Titan X, there are going to be dies that are not even functional enough for the Titan X, that will go in a GTX GP102 card. This is exactly what happened with Kepler Titan to 780. Then later fully functional 780ti and Titan Black. It's going to happen again. Nvidia has been competing against themselves for a while now and the market for a $1200 gaming card is extremely small, but the market for the GP102 1080ti for hundreds of dollars less will be much, much larger.

Buying one of these new Titans under the assumption this is the only entry to GP102 is setting yourself up for disappointment, history says this is not how Nvidia will be handling their product stack. By the holidays of this year a GP102 GTX card will be on the market. I doubt it will even be that long. I expect it will release in October, probably for $800 MSRP and once again be just as fast with overclocking as the Titan X because you can get it in AIB non reference form.

You make some good points here above, but I think that you're leaving something out. Competition. You have to consider what the market was like at the time it launched. For example - did AMD have a competitor out at the time that forced Nvidia's hand to bring something new to the market?

Right now AMD has no competitor to 1080. That may change with Vega, but it may not. And if it doesn't, what reason would Nvidia, a company who's out to make money, have to bring a cheaper card to the market when they can keep selling both Titan X and 1080 at a premium?

You mentioned there will inevitably be some that fall below the Titan X threshold and have to be re-branded as a Ti, but I think it also depends on just how many fall into that bucket. Re-branding a card adds marketing costs, and if the supply doesn't justify it, and the competition in the market doesn't justify it, then I'm not sure it necessarily follows that there will be a Ti.

I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think any of us know for sure at this point.
post #1969 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourplumps View Post

That's not how they do things. They don't slot the ti in the middle. Look at 980ti vs Titan X Maxwell. TX Maxwell was only 5% faster than 980ti, reference vs reference card. AIB 980ti was faster than Titan X. The same performance hierarchy was seen with Titan, 780 and 680. The 1080ti will be just a little behind Titan X Pascal. There is no real doubt on this. 1080ti will be out this year and will be barely slower than Titan X Pascal. This is how nvidia has been doing things for 2 generations now and will do the same thing now in this 3rd one. The competitive climate has been the same this entire time with nvidia solidly in the lead.

Anyone balking at TX Pascal's price should just wait a few months. There will be a cheaper GP102 this year.

Sure there will be a full chip card at some point, they already have them and will be selling them in Teslas. Once the process matures they'll release gaming cards using them. It could be Titan Black, or just like Kepler, they just release it straight to GTX and then do a Titan later. The market is far too large for GTX cards to ignore it. The market on Titan cards is too small to only sell GP102 there.
780Ti countered 290X while 980Ti countered FuryX...what kind of AMD product is 1080Ti supposed to counter then?
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post #1970 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kielon View Post

780Ti countered 290X while 980Ti countered FuryX...what kind of AMD product is 1080Ti supposed to counter then?


There are ppl who dont understand Ti will never exist without a competitive product from AMD.


Nvidia is not going to do extra work of re-calibrate a new chip for gaming with no compete, especially if they have to price it lower.



No Ti, only next generation GTX 1180 which is suppose to be 1080 Ti if AMD has been more competitive.
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