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[Twitter] Jen-Hsun introduces the new NVIDIA TITAN X - Page 198  

post #1971 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Agreed. I've got til November til it expires so I will part out the rig before then, send the old one in to Intel and have them send me a new one to sell BNIB. Just now I've made two NE Wishlists:

Intel 6700K
Asus Maximus VII Formula
4 x 4GB Corsair Dominator DDR4 3000MHz
2 x GTX 980Ti (reference)
Samsung 850 Evo 1TB
Total - $2044

Or:

Intel 5960X
Asus Rampage V Extreme
4 x 4GB Corsair Dominator DDR4 3000MHz
2 x GTX 980Ti (reference)
Samsung 850 Evo 1TB
Total - $2895

I figure I should be able to get around $800-$1000 back in parting out my rig ($250 per OG Titan, $150 for RIVE, $400 for 4930K; sound about right to you???) so I'm wondering which way to go? Only $850 more for an Octo-core setup, though slower single core speeds. What you think?


I wouldn't do sli, if I were you. I know you have been running sli for a long time, and as did I, for the most part ( and never again, if I can help it..lol ), but I have little confidence in Nvidia's willingness to provide adequate sli optimizations for any arch, given the underlying current of changes brought on by further DX 12 /vulkan utilization in games. Speaking of DX 12 and optimizations, why would you want to go from one obsolete arch to another, as neither architecture offers any meaningful dx12 feature set compliance?
At the end of the day, it's your call, but if you are a type of person that doesn't change gpus often, buying Nvidia's obsolete arch may not provide you the performance benefits that you expect , as more DX 12/vulkan based games become common.
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post #1972 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by provost View Post

... but I have little confidence in Nvidia's willingness to provide adequate sli optimizations for any arch, given the underlying current of changes brought on by further DX 12 /vulkan utilization in games ...
Nvidia aren't doing any SLI optimizations any more from DX12 onwards. The only SLI mode available is Explicit Mode. That means they are making game developers write for SLI. So that will go one of two ways.
  1. Game developers code for Explicit SLI (like benchmarks do now) and you ought to end up with excellent scaling as a result.
  2. Game developers don't write for SLI at all and you end up with nothing.

There is no middle ground.

What you won't get is the flakey situation we've had before (DX11 and earlier), which is developers write something that may or may not compatible with Implicit SLI and you end up with games that scale to varying degrees if they don't fall over or glitch.

Nvidia are trying to make SLI better both in terms of performance and reliability, but to do it, they are gambling that developers will code for two way SLI.

For us, it makes it a big gamble to buy that extra GPU as to whether or not DX12 games will be written for Explicit SLI.
Edited by meson1 - 7/28/16 at 8:51am
post #1973 of 3587
Is Ashes still the only dx12 game that supports multi gpu atm?
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post #1974 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourplumps View Post

There will definitely be a 1080ti, or whatever they call it, meaning a GTX branded card using GP102. Every time nvidia has launched a Titan, Kepler and Maxwell based versions, end users have made the same mistaken prediction that there will not be a cheaper GTX based card. That Titan will be some sort of exclusive, and every time they've been wrong. I've bought all the Titan cards and made the same mistaken thought. I'll be buying one of these new ones, but won't kid myself there won't be a cheaper and just as fast GP102 GTX card in AIB form before the holidays of this year.

This Titan isn't even the full GP102. Some of the shaders are disabled. We know nvidia has fully working dies, but right now they are reserving them for their Tesla card that they've already announced. Just like there are dies that came off the assembly line not completely functional that will have to go in the new Titan X, there are going to be dies that are not even functional enough for the Titan X, that will go in a GTX GP102 card. This is exactly what happened with Kepler Titan to 780. Then later fully functional 780ti and Titan Black. It's going to happen again. Nvidia has been competing against themselves for a while now and the market for a $1200 gaming card is extremely small, but the market for the GP102 1080ti for hundreds of dollars less will be much, much larger.

Buying one of these new Titans under the assumption this is the only entry to GP102 is setting yourself up for disappointment, history says this is not how Nvidia will be handling their product stack. By the holidays of this year a GP102 GTX card will be on the market. I doubt it will even be that long. I expect it will release in October, probably for $800 MSRP and once again be just as fast with overclocking as the Titan X because you can get it in AIB non reference form.

I agree with the others, this cut-down Titan IS the 1080Ti but with a $450-$500 price increase and a Titan name slapped on the box. Simple as that...
post #1975 of 3587
The 'cut down' Titan XP is not the 1080 Ti with a Titan name.

The reason we have the Titan XP with 3584 cores is GP102 yield and binning. They didn't get a sufficient yield of GP102 chips with all 3840 cuda cores working. So to produce their Titan XP, they reduced their required number of working cores to 3584.

Competition from AMD is not the factor that will give us the 1080Ti. Yield and binning is. If they are getting large quantities of GP102 chips with more than 2560 operational cuda cores, but less than the 3584 the Titan XP has, than rather than have them sitting there going to waste, they'll package them up into a new GPU and call it the 1080TI. They'll drop the price of the regular 1080 by $50 to $100 and slot the 1080Ti in at around the $800 price point.

This is a somewhat simplistic explanation to the binning process, because it's more than just about the number of working cores. It has to hold a certain clock speed and they need minimum number of other units on the chip to come out viable. But you get the idea.

They may possibly be getting some perfect GP102's with all 3840 cores working. If there are sufficient numbers, we could see a limited edition Titan XP Black or something down the line. But I wouldn't bank on it.
Edited by meson1 - 7/28/16 at 9:19am
post #1976 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

Even your own cherry picked review doesn't agree with those numbers...sigh.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Dragon Age Inquisition 39% increase with TITAN X over 980

Shadow of Mordor ~37% increase with TITAN X over 980

GRID Auto 36% increase with TITAN X over 980

Far Cry 4 35% increase with TITAN X over 980


And in other reviews you'll see it floating much more towards 40% and often close to 43-45% in some games. On average the TITAN X maxwell is close to 40% over the 980. You're trying to claim that this new TITAN won't be nearly as big of a difference simply due to a slight change in cuda-core percentage which is ludicrous. That "10%" is only 256 cuda cores, which we should ALL be well aware of the fact that "when on the same die" a difference of 256 is exactly the difference between the Maxwell TITAN X and 980 TI! And EVERYONE and their mom was saying "TITAN X isn't worth anything, 980 TI made it UTTERLY redundant" because there was literally like 3-4% difference AT MOST between the two. And using your same argument of "percentages" i can point out that 3,840 (50% over 1080 core-wise) vs 3,584 (40%) is even SMALLER of a real world difference than it was in the 980 TI vs Maxwell TITAN X comparison due to the larger starting numbers. 3072 vs 2816 (TITAN X vs 980 TI) was only a ~9% difference if you divide larger by smaller; do the same for 3840 vs 3584 and you get 7%. This means that the ~3-4% real world difference between TITAN X and 980 TI will actually be LARGER than the difference between THIS card and the theoretical "full GP102 3840 core" meaning only ~2% difference!

This means you are going to see AT MOST a ~2-3% lower difference between 1080 and this TITAN than we saw from 980 to Maxwell TITAN X! That is just pure math.

The fact of the matter is, this TITAN X is STILL 1024 cores more than the x80 model; which is the EXACT same as the 1024 cores that the 3072 core Maxwell TITAN X had over the 2048 core 980. That is why it will perform very close to identical to how the TITAN X did over the 980 in this comparison of 1080 vs TITAN XP.

Cherry picked? Oh right because 39%, 36.6% is sooooooooooo different from 35%. rolleyes.gif Seriously who's the one doing the cherry picking now? Btw go back and check your math with GRID, it's only 34%, not 37% like you're trying to claim.

What "other reviews" are you referring to? Because TechPowerUp found even at 4K, the average difference between a Titan X and 980 is 31.6%.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

And in Guru3D's review, the absolute best it does @4K is 39.3% over 980 in Hitman Absolution, and that's just one game. The average is still around 35%. HardOCP didn't test 4K, but the absolute best they got was still 35.6% over 980 in Dying LIght a 1440p.

If I really wanted to cherry pick, I could've picked Hexus's review, because literally every single game they tested the Titan X fell short of 35% over 980 at 4K -- the best they got was 34% in Tomb Raider, and the worst they got was only 23.8% in Shadow of Mordor. If anything I "cherry picked" one of the most favorable reviews, and I'm supposed to be the one doing the cherry picking.

And you COMPLETELY missed my point. Titan X had 50% more of everything than 980, and while yes there was on average a 6-7% deficit in boost speed compared to 980, the average improvement still ended up being around 35%, even at 4K. Even if we add back that 7% to 35% (and that's assuming perfect 1:1 scaling), with 50% more of everything, clock for clock Titan X would still be 42% faster than 980 on average, using unrealistic math.

Titan XP only has 40% more shaders than 980, and the listed boost clock of Titan XP is only 1513 MHz, which is already 12.7% lower than 1080's listed boost of 1733 MHz. And you somehow expect Titan XP to be 35% faster than 1080, stock vs stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

now it has just come to me, why is he comparing a full chip monster like 980Ti with a 1080. They're not the same tier. High-end vs "mid-range +" class. It's like measuring rx480 vs 390X for IPC, 390X is gonna win clock for clock, with a huge lead.


I think TXM vs 980 is gonna be better than TXP vs 1080. TXP is cut down, TXM is a full die. Additionally, I think 1080 is pretty fast for x80 card. For example, let's see 380X CF vs 980 and RX480 CF vs 1080. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)






It took a 980Ti for Maxwell generation to beat two R9 380X cards, now 1080 is beating CF RX480.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

The performance gap between TXP and GTX 1080 is the same as GTX 980 to 980 Ti.




Therefore the gap between TXM vs 980 is definitely bigger than 1080 to TXP.

Yeah well tell it to the guy I'm responding to.
Edited by magnek - 7/28/16 at 9:37am
post #1977 of 3587
I think Nvidia will do a TI. Nvidia knows that there are lots of people that will NOT pay $1200 for this titan. They also know that the market is already starting to shrink for SLI. You see all the time in various tech forums that somebody just wants to "get one fast card" and get rid of SLI and Crossfire. Nvidia sees this also. They also know that there are tons of people still on 970 sli, 980sli and especially single 980ti's that did not see enough gain in 1070's or 1080's to upgrade yet. Many SLI users want to go single card but they need a card that will not lose frames. They will see enough gain in a proper 1080ti.

If a 1080ti comes out with the same cores as the new Titan X but with or without the artificial intelligence stuff on it and a price point around $ 800-$850 it would sell very well. Nvidia will not miss that part of the market share because it is profitable for them.

I hope they do because I went from 970's in SLI to a single 980ti Hybrid at 1500/7800 stock bios. Gaming on the TI is a better experience then the 970 sli without a doubt even if sometimes I have a few less frames. I will not SLI anymore even though I started way back with the 7950gx2. And yes $1200 is more than I will spend even though I can afford it. I will not give in to Nvidia's crap pricing. But I will pay $800-850 for 50% more frames than my 980ti. I play on 7680x1440 and that extra 50% would put me in a very good position game wise.

My 2 cents worth.
Edited by stangflyer - 7/28/16 at 10:18am
post #1978 of 3587
My prediction for a possible 1080 Ti is GP102 chip with 3072 Cuda cores, 384bit memory bus and 10GB GDDR5X memory.
post #1979 of 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by meson1 View Post

My prediction for a possible 1080 Ti is GP102 chip with 3072 Cuda cores, 384bit memory bus and 10GB GDDR5X memory.

That may happen but I would not be interested in it. I would wait for Volta in that case. But I do agree with you that Nvidia may do that. I just hope not!smile.gif
post #1980 of 3587
3072 is too small of an increase over 1080 ...


IMO 1080Ti is either 3328, 3584 or 3840 ...
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