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First Loop Help and Guidance

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Sooo I've made threads like this a few times in the past but never had the spare money and time to actually go through and build a loop but that's changed, ordered all the parts and I'm finally going to do it! Now I kinda know how its going to work and what to do since Ive watched a lot of video and seen a few build logs on here but I figured I'd make a thread and ask all you kind people just to make sure everything goes smoothly for me!



Key for the Image;

Blue = Rads (240)
Green = Pump/Res
Red + Black = GPU Blocks and Crossfire Fitting
Orange = CPU Block
Purple = T Fitting and Drain Port for the loop
White = Tubing

Also In case it matters heres the components;
XSPC EX240 Radiators x 2
Bitspower CPU Waterblock Summit EF
Swiftech Komodo HD7900 GPU Blocks x 2 + Swiftech Crossfire X Bridge
Swiftech MCP655TM D5 Vario Pump + Bitspower D5/MCP655 Mod Kit
Bitspower Dual / Single D5 Top Upgrade Kit 250 + Bitspower D5 Mod Top "S" Model
Bitspower G1/4" to 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD Compression Fitting total of 10 fittings.

I have yet to buy the parts for the Drain and TFitting but I will soon!

So that is what I plan on doing and have 99.9% of the components for besides maybe a few extra fittings I may need that didn't think I would of initially. I was planning on going from the Pump/Res >> TFitting/Drain Line >> Front Rad >> GPU's >> CPU >> Top Rad >> Pump/Res. If I remember correctly it doesn't really matter the order I put them all in but I wanted to make sure its efficient and okay! Now another question I have is for my Pump/Res combo do I need all 4 of those things? The Pump + Mod Kit for the Pump + The Top + the Dual 250 Upgrade kit? I basically want it to end up looking like this so if I need all of that I guess I need all of that just wanted to be sure! So far thats all I got for questions, any other advice on how to do the drain or just general advice on first build is MUCH appreciated! Thanks in advance! smile.gif
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post #2 of 13
Your loop order is just fine. The only thing you really need to worry about order wise is Res into pump which you've got covered with your res/pump combo. As for your res questions, I'm not sure as I haven't used that setup before.
post #3 of 13

I have three of these setups here is how I did it.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/swiftech-mcp655-series-12-vdc-d5-water-pumps-with-speed-control.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-d5-mod-top-black-s-model.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-dual-single-d5-top-upgrade-kit-250-black-pom-cap.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-z-cap-ii-with-g1-4-x3-pom-version.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/alphacool-bubble-down-g1-4-deep-black.html
D5 water pump, D5 mod top, D5 top upgrade kit, the three hole Z cap, and I like to put a bubble down in the bottom of the reservoir.

looks like those radiators will need some fans on them, I would use 4 fans on each radiator, I like the corsair SP 120mm fans.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/corsair-air-series-sp120-performance-edition-high-static-pressure-120mm-fan-set-of-two.html

if the system still needs a little boost to it's cooling performance after install, I like to parallel my water loops, as it helps the system to run a little cooler.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1573189/serial-vs-parallel-9-6lpm
Edited by toolmaker03 - 7/22/16 at 12:17pm
post #4 of 13
You might consider this:



It would be less tubing and look a little cleaner imo. Probably even put your drain right off the pump outlet port with a T.
 
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post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear907 View Post

Your loop order is just fine. The only thing you really need to worry about order wise is Res into pump which you've got covered with your res/pump combo. As for your res questions, I'm not sure as I haven't used that setup before.

I figured as much on the loop! Thanks for the confirmation!
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post


I have three of these setups here is how I did it.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/swiftech-mcp655-series-12-vdc-d5-water-pumps-with-speed-control.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-d5-mod-top-black-s-model.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-dual-single-d5-top-upgrade-kit-250-black-pom-cap.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-z-cap-ii-with-g1-4-x3-pom-version.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/alphacool-bubble-down-g1-4-deep-black.html
D5 water pump, D5 mod top, D5 top upgrade kit, the three hole Z cap, and I like to put a bubble down in the bottom of the reservoir.

looks like those radiators will need some fans on them, I would use 4 fans on each radiator, I like the corsair SP 120mm fans.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/corsair-air-series-sp120-performance-edition-high-static-pressure-120mm-fan-set-of-two.html

if the system still needs a little boost to it's cooling performance after install, I like to parallel my water loops, as it helps the system to run a little cooler.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1573189/serial-vs-parallel-9-6lpm

Haha I did forget to mention I bought 8 SP120 Fans from corsair oops redface.gif! And also thanks for the info on the pump/res combo I just wanted to make sure I wasnt buying something I didnt need ya know? Also didnt think of parallel loops might take a look into it if I need to! Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

You might consider this:



It would be less tubing and look a little cleaner imo. Probably even put your drain right off the pump outlet port with a T.

Always about the clean build! Want this to look nice thats the point of this after all! Thanks for the tubing opinion I might just go with your idea, tbh I didnt quite think about HOW to tube the system per say more so I knew just the straight up order I wanted it in you know?
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post #6 of 13
Here's a few things to keep in mind since you haven't talked about em idk if you thought about it but trust me it's important.

1) Rad+Fan configuration: whether or not you'll have enough clearance to use fans in push/pull or in push only can force you to switch some things up compared to how you initially planned the loop. Which brings us to....

2) Positive pressure: you gotta make sure the CFM yield of your intake fans is superior to the CFM yield of your exhaust ones. That's where not only the amount and diameter of fans but also the speed at which they run come into play. Also if you're using PWM fans and you've chosen to go for splitters, don't go for more than 4 fans per splitter. Many motherboards have trouble handling more than 4 fans per header which can impact the speed of some fans and thus whether you maintain positive pressure (it's quite fan dependant too, from experience i can say that Corsair and Scythe fans tend to be impacted by this a lot more than EK ones. But then again I was running 8 AF120 LED on the same header when I found out about thhe problem...)

3) Since you're going to cool multiple GPUs, you should run the maths to figure out if you'll maintain 1GPM or more throughout your loop. If you do, you should run the GPU blocks in parallel, if you don't go serial.
This thread explains everything in great detail. Would be sad to lose some performance because you picked wrong.

4) For your tubing, what you pictured initially isn't bad by any means, except the placement of that T. As said above, it has to be in the lowest point of your loop, thus after the front rad in the original drawing.
As for setting the drain up, I'd just go with a T to which you directly connect a ball valve followed by a length of tubing, with a plug at the end in case the valve has a defect or somehow gets slightly opened.
If you're thinking of going for something clean, like the route Radnad suggested, keep in mind that the 750D being "roomy" you could also go with something like this:


It all depends on how neat you want your rig to look (and obviously the diameter of the tubing you'll pick)
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post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXe.Lilith View Post

Here's a few things to keep in mind since you haven't talked about em idk if you thought about it but trust me it's important.

1) Rad+Fan configuration: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
whether or not you'll have enough clearance to use fans in push/pull or in push only can force you to switch some things up compared to how you initially planned the loop. Which brings us to....

2) Positive pressure: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
you gotta make sure the CFM yield of your intake fans is superior to the CFM yield of your exhaust ones. That's where not only the amount and diameter of fans but also the speed at which they run come into play. Also if you're using PWM fans and you've chosen to go for splitters, don't go for more than 4 fans per splitter. Many motherboards have trouble handling more than 4 fans per header which can impact the speed of some fans and thus whether you maintain positive pressure (it's quite fan dependant too, from experience i can say that Corsair and Scythe fans tend to be impacted by this a lot more than EK ones. But then again I was running 8 AF120 LED on the same header when I found out about thhe problem...)

3) Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Since you're going to cool multiple GPUs, you should run the maths to figure out if you'll maintain 1GPM or more throughout your loop, if you do, you should run the GPU blocks in parallel, if you don't go serial.
This thread explains everything in great detail. Would be sad to lose some performance because you picked wrong.

4) Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
For your tubing, what you pictured initially isn't bad by any means, except the placement of that T. As said above, it has to be in the lowest point of your loop, thus after the front rad in the original drawing.
As for setting the drain up, I'd just go with a T to which you directly connect a ball valve followed by a length of tubing, with a plug at the end in case the valve has a defect or somehow gets slightly opened.
If you're thinking of going for something clean, like the route Radnad suggested, keep in mind that the 750D being "roomy" you could also go with something like this:

It all depends on how neat you want your rig to look (and obviously the diameter of the tubing you'll pick)

Thank you for the really detailed and thought out reply!

1/2) Yes I have thought about fan configuration and doing a little more and test fits inside the case while I wait for my two GPU blocks to get here it looks like I'll be running the fans like this; Push pull on front 240 rad pulling air in the case, just pull on the top 240 and then having the one rear fan as the only exhaust thus hopefully creating positive pressure correct? Also I don't plan on controlling my fans speeds just plan on running them stock for now and I will definitely keep in mind about that header problem haha!

3) I'll he quite honest I have no idea what 1GPM unless you mean one gallon per minute? Either way I will definitely read that post you liked and figure that out!

4) Yeah I want the build to look as clean as possible, to he honest I didn't put a whole lot of thought into the tub planning when I made that picture since I kinda made it in the spot for the post. But I definitely want to run it how you both showed with the TLine right by the grommets by the power supply so I can hide the drain tube on the back side of the case which would be nice I think or is that a bad idea?

Really thanks again for the detailed and thoughtful posts man! smile.gif
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post #8 of 13
Well positive pressure is about the fans themselves. The amount of them and their specs at the speed they run. You can fairly easily find specs for lowest and highest speed at which your fans are rated, that's something the manufacturer makes public (in most cases). However if you don't plan to control the fans' speed, you need to figure out their "default" speed (or regulate it via voltage control though that's really not something I would advise with the most recent "regular" fans or with any LED fans at all) and either find a CFM/speed chart or measure it yourself.
From you gather, you'll have 4 fans for intake, and 3 for exhaust. Now the one at the back of the 750D is a 140mm iirc so he'll deliver more CFM than a 120mm (roughly 25-35% more than the same fan in 120mm usually) and you have to keep that in mind.
Otherwise, say hello to dust and other residues infiltrating your build. Quick example featuring Corsair's latest fans, the ML series. According to Corsair, the 120mm push anywhere from 12 to 75 CFM of air each (12 at 400rpm, 75 at 2400) and reviews have verified that to be the case. Meanwhile the 140mm pushes from 20 to 97. Let's assume you're running them at max speed and don't bother to control the speed in any way. You'll have 75 x 4 = 300 CFM of intake for 75 x 2 + 97 = 247 CFM of exhaust so you'd be fine. But if you go for very low speeds, you could be in trouble (48 vs 44, not a lot of headroom there).

GPM is gallon per minute yeah. As in, if your loop is a track and your gallon of water is a car and it takes said car exactly 1 minute to run a lap, then your loop is at 1GPM.
Basically parallel vs serial comes down to choosing the one that's going to impact performance the less.

And you're welcome. Took me quite some time to read through all the material available on OCN and many other websites to get a good handle on how to put up a decent loop together, so I just figured I'd save you a few hours and share some tips rolleyes.gif
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post #9 of 13
Honestly you don't need push pull for either rad, you have enough rad space that push pull will make little difference and just add more fan noise.

I would definitely recommend throttling those fans with the temp control from the mobo headers, or else it will be a ridiculous noisy system. You can safely run 3 fans from each header using a splitter or get a hub as mentioned above and run all of them from just a single header. With that much rad space you should be able to run them pretty much silent.
 
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post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXe.Lilith View Post

Well positive pressure is about the fans themselves. The amount of them and their specs at the speed they run. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You can fairly easily find specs for lowest and highest speed at which your fans are rated, that's something the manufacturer makes public (in most cases). However if you don't plan to control the fans' speed, you need to figure out their "default" speed (or regulate it via voltage control though that's really not something I would advise with the most recent "regular" fans or with any LED fans at all) and either find a CFM/speed chart or measure it yourself.
From you gather, you'll have 4 fans for intake, and 3 for exhaust. Now the one at the back of the 750D is a 140mm iirc so he'll deliver more CFM than a 120mm (roughly 25-35% more than the same fan in 120mm usually) and you have to keep that in mind.
Otherwise, say hello to dust and other residues infiltrating your build. Quick example featuring Corsair's latest fans, the ML series. According to Corsair, the 120mm push anywhere from 12 to 75 CFM of air each (12 at 400rpm, 75 at 2400) and reviews have verified that to be the case. Meanwhile the 140mm pushes from 20 to 97. Let's assume you're running them at max speed and don't bother to control the speed in any way. You'll have 75 x 4 = 300 CFM of intake for 75 x 2 + 97 = 247 CFM of exhaust so you'd be fine. But if you go for very low speeds, you could be in trouble (48 vs 44, not a lot of headroom there).

GPM is gallon per minute yeah. As in, if your loop is a track and your gallon of water is a car and it takes said car exactly 1 minute to run a lap, then your loop is at 1GPM.
Basically parallel vs serial comes down to choosing the one that's going to impact performance the less.

And you're welcome. Took me quite some time to read through all the material available on OCN and many other websites to get a good handle on how to put up a decent loop together, so I just figured I'd save you a few hours and share some tips rolleyes.gif

Yeah I figured there would be a lot of stuff/little things I'd need to know about and didn't read or know about yet! So Fans wise I guess I will plug them into the fan headers on the Mobo, might as well I guess just to control them. For intake I will technically have 6 fans, four in push-pull for the front radiator, and then two in pull for the top using AF120 and SP120 fans from corsair. Now both fans run at about the same rpm, 1500-1550. 4 intake fans will be SP120 and two will be AF120, so that's 58 X 4 + 52 X 2 = 336CFM at about 26dba per fan and 1500-1550 rpm stock. My one exhaust fan will be the fan at the pack of the case which I will be swapping for a AF120 which would be 52CFM. So I have 336CFM for intake and 52CFM for exhaust so I'd be good on positive pressure correct? Shoot with that I might just control my intake fans and turn the rpm down to reduce noise and still be at a good positive pressure correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

Honestly you don't need push pull for either rad, you have enough rad space that push pull will make little difference and just add more fan noise.

I would definitely recommend throttling those fans with the temp control from the mobo headers, or else it will be a ridiculous noisy system. You can safely run 3 fans from each header using a splitter or get a hub as mentioned above and run all of them from just a single header. With that much rad space you should be able to run them pretty much silent.

Well I already have the fans for the front radiator to be push pull, two AF120s in push and then 2 SP120s in pull the top rad with just have 2 SP120s in pull. Now I might just use the fan headers in my Mobo with splitters to control them but if I wanted an external either hub or controller do you have any recommendations?
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