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Peltier/TEC Hybrid Water Cooling vs 2.0 - Page 14

post #131 of 389
mine where the same way, the ebay special TEC's I only had one that worked at full power, and the other two only at half power.

there is a ebay special for almost all of the CTE TEC's. so if your interested in getting some 199 TEC's instead of the 127 TEC's that might not be a bad idea.

more like micro meter, but it is just enough to crack a TEC. redface.gif

I did flatten the blocks I used but I did not fill in the holes and that is where they cracked.

if the good TEC is cracked don't worry about it put some ceramic epoxy on there or thermal epoxy sand it flat and call it good.
mine still works fine cracked.
Edited by toolmaker03 - 4/9/17 at 1:36pm
post #132 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

mine where the same way, the ebay special TEC's I only had one that worked at full power, and the other two only at half power.

there is a ebay special for almost all of the CTE TEC's. so if your interested in getting some 199 TEC's instead of the 127 TEC's that might not be a bad idea.

more like micro meter, but it is just enough to crack a TEC. redface.gif

I did flatten the blocks I used but I did not fill in the holes and that is where they cracked.

if the good TEC is cracked don't worry about it put some ceramic epoxy on there or thermal epoxy sand it flat and call it good.
mine still works fine cracked.


Will have to see when i get the darn thing disassembled biggrin.gif
Usual eBay shipping times in about a month to Europe - so I think i will be looking at the PWM controller circuit and programming in the meantime.

/Toe
post #133 of 389
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toeCUTTER78 View Post

How much are we talking mm -wise in regard to "convex-ness" ?
Regarding the hot/cold plates - I will keep that in mind, but will continue on as now for the moment, as I'm almost certain that the inner of the tec is not have a bigger than the waterblock - it's only the exterior ceramic plates and the "potting / gasket" which is out over the side of the waterblock.
The less thermal resistance the better - so I'd like to avoid extra assemblies ... I might come around at some point, but this is my belief atm wink.gif

The convex curve looks like .5mm on my EVO the MX should be the same.

As far as the potting gasket being enough I hope you are correct, you could use the one that failed to find out for sure.
post #134 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

The convex curve looks like .5mm on my EVO the MX should be the same.

As far as the potting gasket being enough I hope you are correct, you could use the one that failed to find out for sure.

I'm not sure I get it. Are they high in the middle by 0.5mm? Do they count on the pressure from the four corner mounts to bring it to flat on a CPU? Is this what the new AquaComputer block is trying to solve?
post #135 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by toeCUTTER78 View Post

Hi guys

@Puck
You are pretty spot on - temp is 37 C as mentioned above.
This is however not with the full wattage I expected as the one TEC was delivered defective, so not result of excess temp.
TEC 1 draws around 260w
TEC 2 (defective) draws around 114w
They are the same China tec1-12730 knock-off model .. totally and utterly unspected rolleyes.gif
The CTE400 sounds interesting, it's 24v tec i see ... the numbers you mention are they from personal experience ?
Unfortunately custom thermo electric is located in the States, and since I live in Denmark, I might have to sell a kidney to import one of those ... then again, I can live with one kidney wink.gif
I think I could fit in another 360 rad without changing my layout completely - Would that be sufficient do you think ?
A 360 rad will cool around 300w of heat, yes ?

Cheers Toe

Yep, personal experience smile.gif I have ran one under a block, and also dual chillers with them...they are indeed rated 400w/24v, but work well at 12v where they pull roughly 12-12.5A and can handle a ~140w heat load. The sweet spot for them is 14-16v, any more then that and the heat load becomes too high to be worth it. With the single on die one, I ran it at 14v. When I added the two chillers, I put all three back to 12v since it was a TON of heat to handle even with 80cfm fans and dual 480 rads . Most TECs perform best at roughly 50-70% of their rated power draw to keep the excess heat down.

A third 360 will definitely help. The lower you can keep the hot side coolant, the colder your cold side loop will get.
Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts 
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2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN660 TEC 
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Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
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Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
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Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN660 TEC 
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Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
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post #136 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

The convex curve looks like .5mm on my EVO the MX should be the same.

As far as the potting gasket being enough I hope you are correct, you could use the one that failed to find out for sure.


Yes, I will do a dissection once the replacement arrives, and post some pictures of the inner guts.
post #137 of 389
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chicken View Post

I'm not sure I get it. Are they high in the middle by 0.5mm? Do they count on the pressure from the four corner mounts to bring it to flat on a CPU? Is this what the new AquaComputer block is trying to solve?

Some are, not all water blocks have a convex curved mating surface, I know for sure the EK Supremacy EVO does, and I think the XSPC Raystorm I am not positive regarding the Raystorm but it leaves an almost identical thermal footprint as the EVO does and for that to happen the bases would need to be very similar. I have a Watercool Heatkiller IV Pro water block and it is virtually flat across the short side of the face and slightly bowed on the long side it has a rectangular shaped base plate. I think their design for those that are convex is for the heat spreaders that are actually concaved in a little as I have seen that many times with AMD heat spreaders.
post #138 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post

Yep, personal experience smile.gif I have ran one under a block, and also dual chillers with them...they are indeed rated 400w/24v, but work well at 12v where they pull roughly 12-12.5A and can handle a ~140w heat load. The sweet spot for them is 14-16v, any more then that and the heat load becomes too high to be worth it. With the single on die one, I ran it at 14v. When I added the two chillers, I put all three back to 12v since it was a TON of heat to handle even with 80cfm fans and dual 480 rads . Most TECs perform best at roughly 50-70% of their rated power draw to keep the excess heat down.

A third 360 will definitely help. The lower you can keep the hot side coolant, the colder your cold side loop will get.


How much heat do you think a 360 would remove in watts ?

Please explain the CTE400 calculation, if I am reading your message correctly you have calculated power draw of 12V * 12,55A = 150w
and a cold side cooling power of 140w - thus making the tec ~90% efficient ? - surely I misunderstood something here ? biggrin.gif


/Toe
Edited by toeCUTTER78 - 4/10/17 at 4:37am
post #139 of 389
Thread Starter 
To whom it may concern:
With my chilled water cooling setup I use regular CPU water blocks to actually cool the CPU itself I had an idea to experiment with modifying an already great performing water block to see if it's cooling could be improved and since it has turned out to be successful I am going to share it here with you all.

When I first got my EK Supremacy EVO water block it was to replace my XSPC Raystorm water block because reviewers reported the EVO was a better performer which turned out to be true, with only swapping out the water block the EVO beat the Raystorm by 5c hottest core load stress testing.

I basically shelved the Raystorm for over a year then decided it was time to pull the EVO and clean it, but before I did that I opened the Raystorm up to make sure it was clean and ready to be mounted, when I did that and visually inspected the fin grid I was not pleased with what I saw, the gridding was flat on top and super tight together and 2 of the grids were actually touching each other.

So I broke out a razor blade to separate the grids touching each other and got them aligned, took a magnifying glass and after further inspection decided I had to do more, IMO, the cooling fins could be improved to allow better coolant flow through them.

I broke out my Dremel tool and used a stainless steel rotary brush and very carefully spent close to an hour using it to widen the gaps of the fin gridding, the stainless steel brush worked absolutely fantastic it actually rounded the flat tops of the fins, widened the channels, and cut the copper slots a little deeper.

The stainless steel is much harder than the copper and it will cut the copper so you have to be careful and stay away from the flat copper edge where the rubber gasket runs, don't get scratches over there or the block will leak when reassembled.

Which I learned the hard way!, and ended up using a very thin layer of marine grade silicon to seal the water block, but if you don't scratch the gasket seal area you won't have a problem with any leaks.

Once the modified water block was confirmed as being leak free I swapped it out with the EK EVO and instantly under the exact same testing even with a fresh application of Artic Silver 5, (which we all know AS5 requires cure in time), the Raystorm actually beat the EVOs cooling performance by 2c.

So the fin grid modifications in the copper base plate have actually improved the Raystorms thermal cooling performance enough to surpass the EVOs cooling performance.

I truly wish I had taken before and after pictures but I did not even know this was going to work at all, my thoughts were if I mess it up well I am not using it right now anyway, I do however have a picture after the modification was completed.



The picture below is the stainless rotary brush I used in the Dremel tool.

post #140 of 389
Thread Starter 
Additionally for any of you that may be interested I am conducting my own testing of an old friend, Artic Silver 5 which many of us have had a long term relationship with.

At Toms Hardware back in 2011 I did a Thermal Compound Roundup and one thing I had discovered that was after all the hooplah regarding all the new TIMs on the market that require zero cure in time, that believe it or not if you were patient enough to allow the needed cure in time Artic Silver 5 actually would out perform the best of the best by a couple of c at least and in some cases even more than that.

I had always know from my own experience that once cured Artic Silver 5s load temperatures could actually improve as much as 5c but you were pretty much definitely going to see a 3c improvement, I have seen this happen myself under the exact same testing parameters.

So the test I am doing is to see if Artic Silver 5s thermal conductive performance improves over time and if so, just how much time does it actually take to show a difference.

Since I am running chilled water cooling and I can control the exact coolant temperature I run the tests at and not change any set overclock parameters the end result information may be of interest to some of you.

The testing began on April 6th 2017, I am running the test using Intel Burn Test and starting the test at a coolant temperature of exactly 9.0c, with the 3rd peltier assembly active, I am using Core temp to record the temperatures.

Note: My computer is not on 24/7 it is only running when I am using it, it is normally off the entire night, and actually used maybe 4 ~ 6 hours a day, so how much that affects what the Artic Silver 5 website claims is the cure in time we'll see.

Quotes below are from the Artic Silver Incorporated Website regarding Artic Silver 5:
Quote:
Controlled Triple-Phase Viscosity:
Arctic Silver 5 does not contain any silicone. The suspension fluid is a proprietary mixture of advanced polysynthetic oils that work together to provide three distinctive functional phases. As it comes from the syringe, Arctic Silver 5's consistency is engineered for easy application. During the CPU's initial use, the compound thins out to enhance the filling of the microscopic valleys and ensure the best physical contact between the heatsink and the CPU core. Then the compound thickens slightly over the next 50 to 200 hours of use to its final consistency designed for long-term stability.
Quote:
Important Reminder:
Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.

Artic Silver 5 cure in test:
4/6/17 core #0 = 75c, #1 = 71c, #2 = 76c, #3 = 66c (Fresh Application of AS5)
4/7/17 core #0 = 74c, #1 = 70c, #2 = 76c, #3 = 66c (24 hours) (core #2 shows no change)
4/10/17 core #0 = 73c, #1 = 69c, #2 = 76c, #3 = 65c (96 hours) (core #2 still no change)
Edited by OCAddict - 4/10/17 at 5:27am
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