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[GamingBolt]Crytek: DX12 And CryEngine 5 On Xbox One And PC Increase Draw Calls By ‘Orders of Magnitude - Page 5

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I dunno, was this before or after AMD made that tessellation slider in CCC?

I guess my issue with the intentional sabotage theory is, AMD has a tessellation slider, and nVidia doesn't. If nVidia forced ridiculous amounts of tessellation (like they did with Hairworks in Witcher 3), it only ends up hurting their own users more because they have no way of dialing it back down to 5 from 11.

TBH, since nvidia can produce a lot more tessellation than AMD, it doesn't really hurt performance that much.
Visuals cost. Just like tressfx cost in performance, same does hairworks. They are just each configured differently.

Also this was shown to be game engine controlled. You could basically change game settings to force a lot less tessellation on either AMD or nvidia without resorting to CCC sliders.

Claims of sabotage, is like claiming that AMD asked DX12 developers to over-excessively use async compute because AMD gain out of it, while nvidia doesn't, or ask them to only use AMD paths to the code. It can go both ways.
I doubt nvidia are forcing over-tessellation on propose on the developer. It is way too counter productive to the developers to do so. Especially in a AAA game.
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post #42 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoa View Post

I enjoyed both games, but Crysis 1 definitely had the most open feel. 2/3 put the series into a standard shooter box with pretty graphics, while enjoyable, was really plain.
Crysis 2/3 feels too CGI than closer to photo realism. The bloom/glow is overdone, everything is glowing.

I prefer the crysis 1 graphic. If crysis 1 have equal the texture quality as 2/3, it will look way better than 2/3
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post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

TBH, since nvidia can produce a lot more tessellation than AMD, it doesn't really hurt performance that much.
Visuals cost. Just like tressfx cost in performance, same does hairworks. They are just each configured differently.

Also this was shown to be game engine controlled. You could basically change game settings to force a lot less tessellation on either AMD or nvidia without resorting to CCC sliders.

Claims of sabotage, is like claiming that AMD asked DX12 developers to over-excessively use async compute because AMD gain out of it, while nvidia doesn't, or ask them to only use AMD paths to the code. It can go both ways.
I doubt nvidia are forcing over-tessellation on propose on the developer. It is way too counter productive to the developers to do so. Especially in a AAA game.



Well nVidia typically has ~2-3x the tessellation power of comparable AMD parts. But as you can see, that advantage disappears as soon as you drop the tessellation factor by a mere 2 fold -- just compare the x32 7970 score with the x64 Titan score.

So I'd say it still ends up a net loss for nVidia users if they're stuck at x64 while AMD users were free to choose between the range of x4 to x64.

Honestly, I don't understand why nVidia doesn't give us that option. If there's minimal or even imperceptible loss in visual fidelity on lowering the tess factor and I gain performance, then I'm all for it. More choice never hurts.
post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post



Well nVidia typically has ~2-3x the tessellation power of comparable AMD parts. But as you can see, that advantage disappears as soon as you drop the tessellation factor by a mere 2 fold -- just compare the x32 7970 score with the x64 Titan score.

So I'd say it still ends up a net loss for nVidia users if they're stuck at x64 while AMD users were free to choose between the range of x4 to x64.

Honestly, I don't understand why nVidia doesn't give us that option. If there's minimal or even imperceptible loss in visual fidelity on lowering the tess factor and I gain performance, then I'm all for it. More choice never hurts.

Why we don't get the option? I don't know.
In only very extreme case it is an issue, and in most games, it is no non-issue to either AMD or nvidia, so I guess nvidia didn't find a reason to change it.

Since this is a game engine or developer controlled setting, we should ask the developer to also add the option to decide the amount of tessellation. I don't see a reason to need to go into the driver settings to force or enforce tessellation settings, while it can be easily set up under the game options instead. Same with different AA settings or AF or amount of textures. Why should the driver have to control it instead of under the game options?
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post #45 of 71
Honestly I don't think I've ever seen a game that allowed you any kind of granularity over tessellation settings. Most games don't have it, and the ones that do, it's a simple on/off toggle.

Why this is I don't know, I have a theory but it involves insulting the game developers. tongue.gif

Maybe nVidia didn't see the need for the tess slider, but if it's not too much trouble to implement, then why not? Especially since we can force AA/AF through driver even if in-game settings exist already. Like I said, having more choices is never a bad thing.
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Xbox and PS4 are going to need huge improvement to CPU overhead because Neo and Scorpio basically have much stronger GPUs but same 8-Core Jaguar.

Many graphics settings increase GPU load way more than CPU load (even by 5x or more) so it's not actually much of a problem as long as they're happy with the framerates that they're already getting (FPS ceilings are strongly tied to CPU performance)

They bumped the clockspeed on the jaguars by like 25% IIRC
Quote:
Well nVidia typically has ~2-3x the tessellation power of comparable AMD parts

You're looking at the 2012 parts. The tesselation performance gap was MUCH bigger (as much as 5x or more, iirc) and more relevant when it was Maxwell vs GCN 1.1 (290/290x/390/390x). That's when we got stuff like Witcher Hairworks(tm) as well.
Edited by Cyro999 - 7/24/16 at 12:29am
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post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Vulkan, please.



3. Releasing Crysis 3 only on Origin, but releasing the later and crappy Ryse: Son of Rome on Steam too.

As others have already pointed out, Crysis 3 was published by EA in 2013. All games that EA develops and publishes post 2011 and the feud they got with Valve over DLC margins, use only Origin. I personally couldn't care less if a game is on steam or not. Between battle.net, origin and gog, most of my gaming happens outside steam anyway. And Crytek has been prolific in promoting graphics and the PC industry in the past and present. Crysis 3 for example, was no port - the PC version looked like a different game almost vs 360-ps3 versions.
Edited by Kuivamaa - 7/24/16 at 1:49am
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post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

You're looking at the 2012 parts. The tesselation performance gap was MUCH bigger (as much as 5x or more, iirc) and more relevant when it was Maxwell vs GCN 1.1 (290/290x/390/390x). That's when we got stuff like Witcher Hairworks(tm) as well.

I did look before making that comment, which is why I said 2-3x:



74790.png

Even 980 Ti is still just barely 2-2.5x over 290X depending on whose results you use.
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Vulkan, please.



3. Releasing Crysis 3 only on Origin, but releasing the later and crappy Ryse: Son of Rome on Steam too.

As others have already pointed out, Crysis 3 was published by EA in 2013. All games that EA develops and publishes post 2011 and the feud they got with Valve over DLC margins, use only Origin. I personally couldn't care less if a game is on steam or not. Between battle.net, origin and gog, most of my gaming happens outside steam anyway. And Crytek has been prolific in promoting graphics and the PC industry in the past and present. Crysis 3 for example, was no port - the PC version looked like a different game almost vs 360-ps3 versions.

Not this conversation again, the issue is perfectly framed in the discussion that followed above, go read it.
 
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post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Vulkan, please.


Crytek still needs to make peace with PC gamers.



3. Releasing Crysis 3 only on Origin, but releasing the later and crappy Ryse: Son of Rome on Steam too.

I'm not sure if Crytek had anything to do with this. Crysis is owned and published by EA, Crytek are just the developers of the series. EA are the ones who decide where it gets published, EA obviously wanted it on Origin only. Ryse is a series owned by Microsoft, again, Crytek didn't have anything to do with with where it gets published. I'm sure if it was released in after July 29th, it would have been a Windows Store exclusive and not available on Steam.

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