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post #31 of 46
w
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Oh, for audio-only yeah. I got stuck on talking about how it relates to audio and video synchronization.

From my own experience the only thing i know where latency is really important is like this:

You let a bit of software run to record your inputs like a midi keyboard.
You want software to lead you with a beat and record you at the same time.

You start playing your keyboard and you think your 100% on cue only to find out the recording is not because you lagged slightly behind because of latency.
Latency just makes recording and realtime audio a bit anoying, computers have such little latency nowdays though that this hardly ever is a problem.

I hope i explained properly....
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post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

w
From my own experience the only thing i know where latency is really important is like this:

You let a bit of software run to record your inputs like a midi keyboard.
You want software to lead you with a beat and record you at the same time.

You start playing your keyboard and you think your 100% on cue only to find out the recording is not because you lagged slightly behind because of latency.
Latency just makes recording and realtime audio a bit anoying, computers have such little latency nowdays though that this hardly ever is a problem.

I hope i explained properly....

 

Yeah, you don't want latency while recording. You will sound like you performed horribly even though you were perfectly spot-on while recording. You need the latency to be 0ms. I would bet that even 1ms latency can sound like you're dragging in the playback.

 

Otherwise, playback latency is fine - especially if it's audio-only. If there's some sort of visual accompanied with it though, then yeah latency can be annoying if it's high enough. I don't even know how I'd hear or detect latency if I'm just listening to something - except for when I pause or skip ahead or go back.

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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Yeah, you don't want latency while recording. You will sound like you performed horribly even though you were perfectly spot-on while recording. You need the latency to be 0ms. I would bet that even 1ms latency can sound like you're dragging in the playback.

Otherwise, playback latency is fine - especially if it's audio-only. If there's some sort of visual accompanied with it though, then yeah latency can be annoying if it's high enough. I don't even know how I'd hear or detect latency if I'm just listening to something - except for when I pause or skip ahead or go back.

Well when you watch a video/film things go wierd anyways.
You have sound projected at speed of sound and light at speed of light, the producers/engineers of the film/video sync everything properly offcourse but when you play the video again you get 1. latency of your equipment 2. latency in the syncing of audio and image because they move towards your ears/eyes in vastly different speeds.
2 different kinds of latency really, one created by our devices and 1 created by our brain and the speed of things like sound and light.

Your video shows that and thats why nature propably programmed us to be allright with 125ms latency.
Things would look very wierd and out of sync if we didnt.

So basicly we dont live in the here and now, we live about 125ms back and when you look ahead you look at the future coming to you at the speed of light + 125ms brain lag.... wth.gif
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post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

Well when you watch a video/film things go wierd anyways.
You have sound projected at speed of sound and light at speed of light, the producers/engineers of the film/video sync everything properly offcourse but when you play the video again you get 1. latency of your equipment 2. latency in the syncing of audio and image because they move towards your ears/eyes in vastly different speeds.
2 different kinds of latency really, one created by our devices and 1 created by our brain and the speed of things like sound and light.

Your video shows that and thats why nature propably programmed us to be allright with 125ms latency.
Things would look very wierd and out of sync if we didnt.

So basicly we dont live in the here and now, we live about 125ms back and when you look ahead you look at the future coming to you at the speed of light + 125ms brain lag.... wth.gif

tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duality92 View Post

tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif

Reading back i dont even understand what i said......
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post #36 of 46

ROFL

 

My brain hurts. :)

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post #37 of 46
Totally sig worthy.
post #38 of 46
Would this be any benefit to people using a receiver and speakers?
My pc is hooked up to my home theater system.
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post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTHMfreak View Post

Would this be any benefit to people using a receiver and speakers?
My pc is hooked up to my home theater system.

It would work but often your reciever allready has stuff to change EQ.
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post #40 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hht92 View Post

Well i tried all the settings you post and they work nice, you can tell that there is a big boost (i played some songs or a movie and i change the config file on the fly so i could hear and understand the boost biggrin.gif ).

I tried also with games (CS:GO). One word fantastic. thumb.gif

Great tips and to think that i never like sound cards, they cost much more than the headphones, except if you go very high end which for the moment i don't care.

Glad my settings worked out for you, really happy that you are impressed with your audio improvements. thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

If your headphones or speakers need help like this and if your DAC or sound card doesn't come with software that has global sound enhancements like a graphic equalizer (or if it does but you're not using it because you don't know about it or don't know how, or never tried it, etc.), then boosting certain frequencies is always going to make a huge difference. There are too many people out there who have no idea how much better their audio quality could be if they would just use graphic equalization - but you have to do it properly, and most people these days don't have enough time to feel comfortable sitting down and figuring it out until their audio's clarity and whatnot can't get any better. Then you have the people who go, "What's wrong with it? I can hear it. Isn't that all there is to it?" My answer is, "No. Far from it. Hearing it is only one small piece of the puzzle".

Ever since the simple Sound Blaster 16, I have always used Creative's sound cards, and I have always used their graphic equalizer, which affects all sound output. Even before I had a computer, I always made sure I had a stereo system that had its own graphic equalizer and I always used it to my advantage. So I like to think that I know what I'm talking about. lol smile.gif I think the only time I was ever ok with NOT having graphic equalization when I was just a little boy and I hadn't experienced the difference yet. Back then, I would just increase the volume and that was good enough - just like the way too many people do it these days. "Increase the volume to compensate for the weak frequencies!" Sigh... Facepalm! Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Anyway, I had these sound cards:
  • Sound Blaster 16
  • Sound Blaster Live! Value
  • Audigy 2 ZS
  • X-Fi XtremeGamer (the simple one that looks like a low-profile card)
  • X-Fi Titanium HD

I think all 5 of these sound cards came with software that had global graphic equalization. However, I also remember needing to use the Bass and Treble adjusters in Windows 95, so maybe the Sound Blaster 16 didn't have anything like that. I don't know. What I do know though is, I have never had speakers that were fine without graphic equalization. If I didn't boost 2K through 16K using an upward sloping curve that peaked at around 8K, then they would sound muffled and flat. Even with my Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 system and very nice aftermarket speaker wires for the satellite speakers, I still need graphic equalization, although the amount of graphic equalization that I need now is FAR less than ever before.

I don't know DACs very well, but the few that I've become aware of in the past couple of years don't come with any software at all, so that means you won't have any global graphic equalizer or any other audio enhancements, and so that means that need to find one (like you did), or make sure you buy speakers and headphones don't need any help (probably super expensive) because otherwise they'll sound dull and muffled and flat. Of course, you can still use the built-in graphic equalizer in your preferred media player, but you'd still be experiencing dull/flat/muffled audio for everything else like YouTube.

So when I see someone who has the Sound Blaster Z saying that something like this made a huge difference, I would say that it's probably because they weren't using Creative's global graphic equalizer. I'd be surprised if the Sound Blaster Z doesn't come with one.


I'm not a hearing expert, but I would bet most people have different hearing between both of their ears. Try this: the next time you use the phone, actively switch between both of your ears a few times. Or, call an automated service where you have plenty of time to go back and forth to listen to the difference between your ears.

The reason why I am recommending this as a test is, we all tend to use either our left ear or or right ear for the phone and never the other ear. So when you have headphones that are giving both ears identical audio experiences, you should actually customize the output so that your left and right channels really do have an identical sound to you. With speakers, it's not as important, unless you have them set up in such a way where the left and right channels completely dominate each other just like with headphones. For me, I can only have a setup where the right and left channels are mostly blended by the time the sound reaches my ears. So, I don't want to mess with that.


Yeah, I'm gonna have to ask him what he was doing before this because it sounds to me like he wasn't using any of Creative's audio enhancements at all, not even their graphic equalizer. I'm taking full advantage of what's available to me, and the result has me 100% satisfied.


That is the main reason why I created this thread. I'm a musician myself and I feel like an artist creates his music based on what he can hear from his own setup, and obviously the listener doesn't have the same setup. So here I'm trying to bridge the gap between the artist and the fan; to bring the fan closer to the artist's vision. The good thing about Equalizer APO is you can follow any tutorial on how to create an EQ for any genre of music and basically recreate it in APO.

Honestly I haven't used sound cards since the early 2000's so I couldn't tell you what they do or don't have. My most recent experience with a sound card is an Audigy LS that I tried to put in my sig rig back in 2011 and came to the conclusion that on-board sounded way better than it. So I decided to do away with Sound Cards (surely it was because the Sound Card was extremely dated but DACs seem to be the way to go these days).

That's the main reason why I was looking for something like Equalizer APO because my music sounded fine because I still use Winamp to this day and it comes with a built in EQ. However for everything else except WMP I also was without an EQ (even say streaming music or Youtube). So I was looking for something like this for a while before I finally found it.

Personally this is what I would do if I were you. Disable Graphics Equalization through Sound Blaster Software and only use the sound card as an Amplifier (like if it was only a DAC). Then install Equalizer APO and use my headphone settings that I just posted. Plug in some of your best headphones and jam out with it. Then try without Equalizer APO and with the Sound Card's EQ instead. See what sounds better and report back.

I believe the only real benefit to equalizing each individual ear would be if say you have done damage to one of your ears and you need to improve audio in that ear specifically compared to the ear that is not damaged. Otherwise I don't believe each individual ear is necessary for most people. But I was playing around with the tone generator and thuNDa is right there are certain frequencies which appear to sound lower for instance than one ear compared to the other. However, I did find that I wasn't able to replicate this outside of the tone generator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thuNDa View Post

Well, it's equalizing ones headphones - the differences between EQ'ing or getting another soundcard/DAC are galaxies apart from each other, when it comes to "sound improvements".
I mean, adding only one filter with +/- 3dB is already a bigger difference, than going from onboard to a dedicated soundcard / DAC.

And i have different settings for each ear, because the drivers of my headphones(and most headphones generally) are not 100% matched.
You can test for yourself with a tone generator: http://sinegen.en.lo4d.com/

With this program you can also hear the peaks and dips throughout the frequency range.
for the hd681 evo i would recommend the testversion of "sonarworks", which would then only work for "foobar".
If you wanted to take over its EQ-settings to EQ-APO, you had to rebuild the EQ curve, which is witchery in itself again(i did so for my headphones, and mixed it with my former EQ settings). rolleyes.gif

This topic can go really deep.

This is what i all read about it(in english alone that is):

http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
http://www.head-fi.org/t/796791/the-most-reliable-easiest-way-to-eq-headphones-properly-to-achieve-the-most-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress
http://www.head-fi.org/t/361303/ideal-headphone-frequency-reponse-graph
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-test-estimated-harman-target-response-curve-various-headphones
http://www.head-fi.org/t/762969/sonarworks-headphone-calibration-software
http://www.head-fi.org/t/564465/misconception-of-neutral-accurate
http://www.head-fi.org/t/612665/how-far-can-eq-really-go-towards-truly-equalizing-headphones

HF biggrin.gif

Well I was playing around with the tone generator and you can definitely tell there is some benefit to tuning each ear individually. But I'm not sure if this is beneficial outside of the tone generator just yet. Will have to experiment with it a little more.

I'll have to take a look through those links, great material +rep. thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLDii3 View Post

Might want to add that anyone who is using WASAPI or ASIO won't notice a change until they switch to DS.

Added to OP. Thanks for noting.
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