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post #141 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Because 140mm fans of similar design move more air at same speed. It really is just that simple .. bigger fans of same design move more air.

What are you trying to say in the sentence I underlined? Many I'm not understanding things, but it sounds like you are just ranting.

I agree, most reviewer don't have even a hint of an idea about what they are doing.
I agree Thermalbench, extemerigs, coolingtechnique, are good, and so are a few others. Cyclops and ehume do good testing too.

You call me nuts for waiting awhile to see how new prodcut performs after after first release. I call it common sense. Corsair didn't even send out samples for review and testing until shortly before release, and reviewers were not allowed to publish their results until release day. Still, you 'lab rats' were paying money and pre-ordering a totally unproven product.

Look at what happened with the first release of Vardar fans that had to be recalled. What about the numerous Corsair CLC releases that had all kinds of problems, some had to all be recalled, EKWB had to recall the first batch of Predator AIO coolers. Swiftech had some reservoir leak issues in their new X2 line. And these are just off the top of my feeble mind. tongue.gif Besides, I ddn't say to wait couple years. I didn't give any time limit at all.

As for warranty, well they are only as good as company who honors them. I RMA'ed a Corsair PSU because the 'ultra quite fan was so darn noisy that even at an idle it could be heard 2-3 meters away. Each RMA would take 3-6 weeks. Finally I gave up, then a couple years later they finally replaced them with a PSU that is actually quiet enough to be in the same room with. We see this kind of thing in new video card releases rather often .. or used to. Same has been true of motherboards, but there it's mostly driver and firmware issues.

I'll let people like who think I'm nuts to see how something works before I buy. That way I can let you spend all your money on new unproven stuff that looses value very rapidly. I'm not spending hundreds on things that in 6 months to a year are only woth about half or less of their original cost on things not proven to work properly. I'll set back and watch the lab rats try the new stuff before I do.
So please jump right out there and buy all of these brand new products. thumb.gif

He does need them for secondary purpose, which is a 120mm format CLC on his GPU. So i'm guessing as i`ve said that 140mm fans dont really fulfill that purpose.

In the underlined sentence i was pointing out the fact that 120mm fans have higher static pressure than equivalent 140mm fans. Thus in the HIGHLY restrictive R5 case where fans have much less surface to draw air from, a higher SP fan would outdo the higher CFM fan. Additionally HDD cages are behind those fans, which add to restrictiveness of the environment in R5. Which is one of the reasons i'd never get an R5.

I like Cyclops tests but they are done on an air cooler which is a totally different scenario which yields different results, thus I dont pay much attention to it. Havent seen Ehumes tests tbh.

As far as Vardar fans i've gotten the very first batch and loved em. They work flawlessly to this day. Sure some QC or production issues might arise, but they might arise at any point during production. Not necessarily at start. Also all that is mitigated by the RMA which you can always do, should the fans come with issues. I do all RMA over local retailers and never have I had any issues. But then again I also know personally owners of most the retailers due to my work, so my mileage may have varied tongue.gif Also i have about 30 fans on the side, so waiting for RMA is never an issue.

On the topic of Corsair CLC issues, I find whole Asetek a big issue which should not exist, so i wont comment on it.

@Ciarlatano
I've had a few Raijintek products on test which "were supposed to be better than XYZ, we've tested in house". So meh...
Edited by Kutalion - 8/6/16 at 1:29pm
post #142 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kutalion View Post

He does need them for secondary purpose, which is a 120mm format CLC on his GPU. So i'm guessing as i`ve said that 140mm fans dont really fulfill that purpose.

In the underlined sentence i was pointing out the fact that 120mm fans have higher static pressure than equivalent 140mm fans. Thus in the HIGHLY restrictive R5 case where fans have much less surface to draw air from, a higher SP fan would outdo the higher CFM fan. Additionally HDD cages are behind those fans, which add to restrictiveness of the environment in R5. Which is one of the reasons i'd never get an R5.

I like Cyclops tests but they are done on an air cooler which is a totally different scenario which yields different results, thus I dont pay much attention to it. Havent seen Ehumes tests tbh.

As far as Vardar fans i've gotten the very first batch and loved em. They work flawlessly to this day. Sure some QC or production issues might arise, but they might arise at any point during production. Not necessarily at start. Also all that is mitigated by the RMA which you can always do, should the fans come with issues. I do all RMA over local retailers and never have I had any issues. But then again I also know personally owners of most the retailers due to my work, so my mileage may have varied tongue.gif Also i have about 30 fans on the side, so waiting for RMA is never an issue.

On the topic of Corsair CLC issues, I find whole Asetek a big issue which should not exist, so i wont comment on it.

@Ciarlatano
I've had a few Raijintek products on test which "were supposed to be better than XYZ, we've tested in house". So meh...
Okay, for secondary purpose they will probably be good .. assuming the grinding noise some have experienced is resolved, and I assume it will be.

No, 120mm fans are not higher pressure if built properly, and even if they were 140mm fans work better in R5 case. R5 is not 'HIGHLY restrictive', not even close. There are many cases with much more restictive venting and poorer airflow design.

Cyclops testing on an 'air cooler' versus ehume and geggeg testing on 'radiators' is realy a mute point. All create enough resistance to give us a good idea of fans' potentials.

I'm glad your early Vardars worked fine, but it's a mute point because many others did. . QC issue are much more prevalent in first release than later on. This has been historically proven many times.. I'm glad you've had no issue dealing with RMAs, but it's also a mute point. So is having 30 fans on the side.

Corsair CLCs aer Asetek and Asetek has patent on CLC pump on water block and CLC design, so Asetek have a lock on CLCs. There is no discussion to be had. Asetek origianlly named them LCLC for Low Cost liquid Cooler, later changed to CLC, but that's another subject.

You claim be to a reviewer, but based on some of your rebuttal statements in this thread I have to wonder how good your reviews are.

I'm not replying to any more of your rebuttals. Have a nice day!.
post #143 of 257
You too!
post #144 of 257
Is ML140 Pro good choice for an exhaust at back of the case ? Will it actually help lower my temps in any way (CPU and GPU) ?

PS: Running Intel 4790K at stock and AMD 480 GPU.
post #145 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by craige View Post

Is ML140 Pro good choice for an exhaust at back of the case ? Will it actually help lower my temps in any way (CPU and GPU) ?

PS: Running Intel 4790K at stock and AMD 480 GPU.
I'm sure it would be a fine exhaust fan. The real question is whether it would be any better than what you currently have. If your current exhaust fan is decent, any temperature difference is likely to be negligible. Even if your current exhaust fan is junk, the ML series is unlikely to be the most cost-effective solution when compared to other high end fans. If you're wanting the LED one for aesthetic reasons, go for it. If you're not picking it for its looks, save some money & buy something else.
Gigabyte Z170
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Brother's Machine
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-6600k GIGABYTE G1.Sniper Z170 EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512GB M.2280 Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer Phanteks PH-TC14PE_BL 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F140SP 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F120SP Windows 10 Pro Visio E601i-A3 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K400 EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2 Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Logitech G600 MMO 
OtherOtherOther
XBox One Controller Reeven Four Eyes Touch HTC Vive 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Pentium G4560 ASUS H110M-A/M.2 Corsair Vengeance LPX Western Digital Caviar Blue 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Western Digital Caviar Blue Cryorig H7 Undecided EVGA Supernova G2 750W 
CaseOther
Corsair Air 540 Phanteks PH-F140SP 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2120 ACER IPISB-VR EVGA GTX 260 3x2GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
Wester Digital Green ASUS DVD RW DVD RW Stock Cooler 
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Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 Windows 10 Pro 
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Thermaltake TR2 500W Corsair Carbide Spec-01 Microsoft Intellimouse 
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Gigabyte Z170
(23 items)
 
 
Brother's Machine
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-6600k GIGABYTE G1.Sniper Z170 EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512GB M.2280 Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer Phanteks PH-TC14PE_BL 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F140SP 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Phanteks PH-F140SP Phanteks PH-F120SP Windows 10 Pro Visio E601i-A3 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K400 EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2 Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Logitech G600 MMO 
OtherOtherOther
XBox One Controller Reeven Four Eyes Touch HTC Vive 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Pentium G4560 ASUS H110M-A/M.2 Corsair Vengeance LPX Western Digital Caviar Blue 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Western Digital Caviar Blue Cryorig H7 Undecided EVGA Supernova G2 750W 
CaseOther
Corsair Air 540 Phanteks PH-F140SP 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2120 ACER IPISB-VR EVGA GTX 260 3x2GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
Wester Digital Green ASUS DVD RW DVD RW Stock Cooler 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 Windows 10 Pro 
PowerCaseMouse
Thermaltake TR2 500W Corsair Carbide Spec-01 Microsoft Intellimouse 
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post #146 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by craige View Post

Is ML140 Pro good choice for an exhaust at back of the case ? Will it actually help lower my temps in any way (CPU and GPU) ?

PS: Running Intel 4790K at stock and AMD 480 GPU.
This was answered twice in posts after you first asked it here.

ML140 is very expensive compared to other fans as good or better performing, both in airflow and sound level.

Changing exhaust fans to gain better case airflow and cooling is very hit and miss. Case airflow and cooling is a combination of things that all have to work together to get optimum cooling.

Using case intake and exhaust fans is like using push / pull or push / push fans on radiators and/ro coolers. Sometimes they make little difference (0-2c) while other times the make 3-6c difference. The reason is staking fans does not improve their maximum flow rating, but does improve the pressure rating. If they have high enough pressure ratings, stacking them to push air into case while pulling it out does not improve flow .. while if fan is not high enough pressure rating it will help.

But case airflow is not just about how much air the case fans can flow through the case, but equally about the way the air flows through the case, the paths the air takes. This determines how well the components' heated exhaust air is removed from the case without contaminating and raising the temperature of cool intake air. Typically a stock case will supply CPU cooler with air 8-15c warmer than room when CPU is working hard, and it is not uncommon for cooler intake air tempt to be 15-25c when gaming with GPU working hard. This can usually be improved to a difference of about 5c without to much effort. 2-3c is very good. "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig, 5th article is about case airflow. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it.
post #147 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Case airflow and cooling is a combination of things that all have to work together to get optimum cooling.

Using case intake and exhaust fans is like using push / pull or push / push fans on radiators and/ro coolers. Sometimes they make little difference (0-2c) while other times the make 3-6c difference. The reason is staking fans does not improve their maximum flow rating, but does improve the pressure rating. If they have high enough pressure ratings, stacking them to push air into case while pulling it out does not improve flow .. while if fan is not high enough pressure rating it will help.

Thx for giving detailed info.
Now, I have full tower with 2x140 fans on front with clear way to get air inside. From what I understand is Static pressure is important and my current AF 140 fan has Static Pressure of: 0.84mmH20 and the new ML 140 has pressure of 0.2-3.0 mmH20. Can u lemme know how much it can help in exhaust when I consider this and I am planning to run the fan at 1300RPM only.
post #148 of 257
Static pressure is only required if you want to overcome obstacles in the airflow (e.g. cooler/radiators with a high fin density).
Exhaust fans only need a good airflow.
post #149 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by craige View Post

Thx for giving detailed info.
Now, I have full tower with 2x140 fans on front with clear way to get air inside. From what I understand is Static pressure is important and my current AF 140 fan has Static Pressure of: 0.84mmH20 and the new ML 140 has pressure of 0.2-3.0 mmH20. Can u lemme know how much it can help in exhaust when I consider this and I am planning to run the fan at 1300RPM only.
Static Pressure rating is pressure point fan running full speed stops moving air. Airflow rating is amount of air fan will flow hanging on a string in open area. New ML gives static pressure rating at it's low and high rpm points.

How a fan will perform depends very much on how fast it is running. (rpm). The ML 140 being a 2000rpm fan will definitely move quite a bit of air, but it will also be getting rather loud. Don't be fooled by their specified dBA rating. Assuming it is accurate it is the noise fan makes with no restrictions and no resonance sound being created by vibration or air going though grills and/or filter.

It is generally accepted the 140mm fans running faster than approximately 800rpm will be audible in most applications. It is also generally accepted that 1000-1100rpm is about the speed that their noise level starts becoming intrusive to most people.

While the ML 120 is quite good, the ML 140 is nothing great at all. If you want it for aesthetics, fine. Just don't try fooling yourself into believing it's a good fan, especially the prices it goes for.
post #150 of 257
$25 and $35 for two means when reach here...exchange is X4, add tax add markup.........no thanks
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