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[AdoredTV] Pascal vs Maxwell at same clockspeeds, same FLOPS (1080 vs 980 Ti) - Page 11

post #101 of 305
The main issue here is that this guys Methodology is HIGHLY flawed. (on top of him being a well known Nvidia hater)


He specifically says that he COULDN'T get the 1080 low enough to meet the 980 TI's clock speed (further evidence that he doesn't know what he's doing as you can simply get a software capable of underclocking) So he just goes and CUTS THE POWER TARGET IN HALF!!

This does NOT "just" lower it to the same clock speed as the 980 TI, it STARVES the card! The GTX 1080 with 50% power target only has a 90 watt TDP to work with in this case which will drastically interfere with how the memory and general operations perform. It's outright unfair to cripple the TDP on the 1080 to 90 watts and then claim its a FAIR comparison to a 250 watt 980 TI!

This literally makes the WHOLE comparison a pile of nonsense. The fact of the matter is Pascal DOES beat Maxwell in clock for clock. I mean hell, a 980 TI can get around 1,600mhz on water cooling. The GTX 1080's base clock speed is 1,607mhz. I GUARANTEE you that a 1,607mhz 980 TI will NOT get anywhere close to a 1080 at stock 1,607mhz. Just not happening. There will be a ~15-20% difference minimum even downclocking the 1080 to its base clock speed.

Bottom line is, this test is very flawed. The 1080 is out of spec therefore it isn't a fair comparison of clock to clock with the 980 TI being allowed THREE times more wattage than this crippled 90 watt 1080.

And some people are seemingly forgetting that a 980 TI can't get ANYWHERE near 2,100mhz. My MSI Gaming X 1080 hits 2,150mhz stable in games. Even on LN2 you aren't getting a 980 TI quite that high lol (unless you are the next Kingpin maybe haha)
Edited by DarkIdeals - 7/28/16 at 8:35am
 
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post #102 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

What is the point, then? Obviously, someone thinks blurting out the obviously false opinion validates a notion which is lost on me.

I neither know nor care. Ask him. I was just answering your technical question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

and AMD should have stick to that architecture for at least 1 more generation, b4 introducing the more power hungry GCN, most the GCN extra features are not getting use until PS4/Xbox one got popular.

VLIW cards were growing inefficient at the shader counts being offered by the time the 6900 series debuted. GCN offered a much more capable scheduler which was necessary for the expanding logic. Another generation on VLIW would have been a mistake.
post #103 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

The main issue here is that this guys Methodology is HIGHLY flawed. (on top of him being a well known Nvidia hater)


He specifically says that he COULDN'T get the 1080 low enough to meet the 980 TI's clock speed (further evidence that he doesn't know what he's doing as you can simply get a software capable of underclocking) So he just goes and CUTS THE POWER TARGET IN HALF!!

This does NOT "just" lower it to the same clock speed as the 980 TI, it STARVES the card! The GTX 1080 with 50% power target only has a 90 watt TDP to work with in this case which will drastically interfere with how the memory and general operations perform. It's outright unfair to cripple the TDP on the 1080 to 90 watts and then claim its a FAIR comparison to a 250 watt 980 TI!

This literally makes the WHOLE comparison a pile of nonsense. The fact of the matter is Pascal DOES beat Maxwell in clock for clock. I mean hell, a 980 TI can get around 1,600mhz on water cooling. The GTX 1080's base clock speed is 1,607mhz. I GUARANTEE you that a 1,607mhz 980 TI will NOT get anywhere close to a 1080 at stock 1,607mhz. Just not happening. There will be a ~15-20% difference minimum even downclocking the 1080 to its base clock speed.

And some people are seemingly forgetting that a 980 TI can't get ANYWHERE near 2,100mhz. My MSI Gaming X 1080 hits 2,150mhz stable in games. Even on LN2 you aren't getting a 980 TI quite that high lol (unless you are the next Kingpin maybe haha)
He's not an nVidia hater. He has trashed AMD numerous times. Oyeah. I forgot. Saying anything bad about nVidia is hating, and saying anything bad about AMD is justified...

If the card was really starved for power we would be seeing artifacts, or the card not running at all. The card is 'smart' enough to limit its clock based on the power available. It's a perfectly fair comparison.

You cannot guarantee anything until you have tested it, and this test shows that Pascal = node shrink Maxwell 2. Until any other test indicates otherwise, this is the conclusion. I now even dare say that no other test can conclude differently. And if both cards run at 1600 MHz, the results will be the same.

The point is not which one is faster. The point is that technology has not been improved, meaning the card's life will be short-lived.

There sure is a lot of insecurities going on here... If you like the boost in performance, why the huge urge to try and justify that Pascal is an improved architecture compared to Maxwell...?
Edited by NightAntilli - 7/28/16 at 8:39am
post #104 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

4096 Vega wont beat your above average 980Ti by any considerable margin (if at all) either wink.gif

We will see. If not, I'll just wait for Vega 11 or even Volta. What I know for sure, is that my next card will have HBM2.

Right now I'm just chilling and looking forward to see more DX12/Vulkan games come out. Performance-wise I'm fine right now.
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post #105 of 305
so shadowplay sucks. I've read somewhere if you disable shadowplay running in the background you get free performance
post #106 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post

He's not an nVidia hater. He has trashed AMD numerous times. Oyeah. I forgot. Saying anything bad about nVidia is hating, and saying anything bad about AMD is justified...

If the card was really starved for power we would be seeing artifacts, or the card not running at all. The card is 'smart' enough to limit its clock based on the power available. It's a perfectly fair comparison.

You cannot guarantee anything until you have tested it, and this test shows that Pascal = node shrink Maxwell 2.

The point is not which one is faster. The point is that technology has not been improved, meaning the card's life will be short-lived.

There sure is a lot of insecurities going on here... If you like the boost in performance, why the huge urge to try and justify that Pascal is an improved architecture compared to Maxwell...?


Bullcrap. This is UTTERLY unfair. First off, how do you know that the card DIDN'T have artifacting and crashing? You weren't there.... and he specifically said he had a lot of trouble getting the 1080 to work right at that speed.

First off, the 980 TI is NOT the right card to be making this comparison with. The 1080 has a 314mm2 die size similar to the 980 which is only a tiny bit larger. The 980 TI has a 601mm2 die size and a vastly different general design with more cores etc... That ALONE is enough to make this unfair due to the nature of how die density works affecting cooling and performance etc.. quite a bit.

You can prove this by simply looking at results for an overclocked 980 TI. It doesn't reach the point of a stock 1080; is still roughly 15% slower. A measly ~150-200mhz won't change that. And no, power isn't the only issue with this. Limiting a cards wattage does FAR more than lower the clock speed. It lowers the memory speed too and really wreaks havoc with the efficiency of the architecture; you can EASILY prove this by the fact that these two cards at 1,600mhz (1080 at stock and 980 TI highly overclocked) end up with the 1080 way ahead. How do you explain that? Huh? Why would the 980 TI be even or even faster with both at 1,200mhz (with this absurd crippling of the 1080) whereas with both at 1600mhz the 1080 gains way ahead? And even ignoring this glaring issue, and just focusing on pure gains from increasing clock speed (with the 1080 gaining MUCH more from going to 1600 vs 1200 than the 980 TI does)....could it possibly be that....*le gasp*.....the 1080 Pascal architecture is more efficient at using its frequency and gains more power from each mhz!! Wow...so surprising SMH -___-

Not to mention the very fact that Pascal can even HIT 2,100mhz is MORE than enough proof that it is far more than "maxwell on 16nm".

You AMD fanboys just never care for the truth though lol...


And no this guy never hates on AMD, he's constantly bashing on Nvidia and he has no clue what he's talking about half the time.
Edited by DarkIdeals - 7/28/16 at 8:49am
 
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post #107 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

The main issue here is that this guys Methodology is HIGHLY flawed. (on top of him being a well known Nvidia hater)


He specifically says that he COULDN'T get the 1080 low enough to meet the 980 TI's clock speed (further evidence that he doesn't know what he's doing as you can simply get a software capable of underclocking) So he just goes and CUTS THE POWER TARGET IN HALF!!

This does NOT "just" lower it to the same clock speed as the 980 TI, it STARVES the card! The GTX 1080 with 50% power target only has a 90 watt TDP to work with in this case which will drastically interfere with how the memory and general operations perform. It's outright unfair to cripple the TDP on the 1080 to 90 watts and then claim its a FAIR comparison to a 250 watt 980 TI!

This literally makes the WHOLE comparison a pile of nonsense. The fact of the matter is Pascal DOES beat Maxwell in clock for clock. I mean hell, a 980 TI can get around 1,600mhz on water cooling. The GTX 1080's base clock speed is 1,607mhz. I GUARANTEE you that a 1,607mhz 980 TI will NOT get anywhere close to a 1080 at stock 1,607mhz. Just not happening. There will be a ~15-20% difference minimum even downclocking the 1080 to its base clock speed.

And some people are seemingly forgetting that a 980 TI can't get ANYWHERE near 2,100mhz. My MSI Gaming X 1080 hits 2,150mhz stable in games. Even on LN2 you aren't getting a 980 TI quite that high lol (unless you are the next Kingpin maybe haha)

They're not saying a 980 Ti is faster, just that the 1080 wins because it has massive clock speeds. Obviously Maxwell can't match the clock speeds, it wasn't designed for it/not possible. At the same clock speeds, the 980 Ti could win, but the performance per watt would be ridiculous on the 1080.
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post #108 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Captain here: 6870 is vliw5 and nice try, btw.

6000 series is vliw4
post #109 of 305
good test, but bad cards.He should compare GTX1070 vs GTX980
GTX980 at 1500/8000 vs GTX1070 at 1500/8000

GTX980TI have 337GB/s and 1080 only 320GB/s.96rops vs 64rops.

I already test that and 1070 is 10-20% faster at same clock vs GTX980 Btw.
post #110 of 305
Lets do a PROPER comparison shall we?


GTX 980. 2048 cuda cores.

GTX 1080. 2,560 cuda cores.


Thats a 25% gain in cores for the 1080. So even if we assume that cuda cores are a DIRECT 1:1 increase in performance (protip: they aren't. Far from it.)

The 80% gain the 1080 has over the 980, can be moved down to 65% if we assume 25% more cores = 25% more performance (like i said, it isn't but lets play along)

An aftermarket GTX 1080 under water can easily clock to 1,600mhz. So if you can find me an overclocked GTX 980 of any kind that is as fast as a stock speed GTX 1080 then i'll concede your point. But you can't, because when you use a FAIR comparison with both cards allowed to use all their faculties etc.. and using a comparison of 104 die to 104 die instead of 200 die vs 104 die; you find that Pascal has quite a bit of performance increase.
 
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