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[AdoredTV] Pascal vs Maxwell at same clockspeeds, same FLOPS (1080 vs 980 Ti) - Page 12

post #111 of 305
This mate ADOREDTV is kind of disappointing me. He's completely biased.
As soon as I saw the RX480 consumption/performance relation, I knew that there's no such thing as a Master Plan. Most likely a struggle.
AMD needed almost 200W to power a two node shrink that performs like a downpriced three year old 290X.
My expectations about Vega are very low at this point.
post #112 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by headd View Post

good test, but bad cards.He should compare GTX1070 vs GTX980
GTX980 at 1500/8000 vs GTX1070 at 1500/8000

GTX980TI have 337GB/s and 1080 only 320GB/s.96rops vs 64rops.

I already test that and 1070 is 10-20% faster at same clock vs GTX980 Btw.


EXACTLY!!!

People don't seem to get this. The 980 TI is NOT the card to compare here. It has a die that's TWICE the size of the 1080's (601mm2 vs 314mm2), it has vastly different general design, it has higher memory bandwidth, it has more ROP, more Cache etc..etc.. The 980 is a MUCH better comparison to the 1080.
 
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post #113 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemama1956 View Post

They're not saying a 980 Ti is faster, just that the 1080 wins because it has massive clock speeds. Obviously Maxwell can't match the clock speeds, it wasn't designed for it/not possible. At the same clock speeds, the 980 Ti could win, but the performance per watt would be ridiculous on the 1080.


That's the thing though, EVEN at the same speed the 1080 STILL wins. This guy is just rigging the test to make the 980 TI win because he wants the 1080 to look bad.


He crippled the 1080 by cutting it's wattage in half! How is that fair? Can ANYONE explain to my why he couldn't simply underclock the 1080? There's all kinds of software to do this. And if he HAD just underclocked the 1080, or even just turned off GPU Boost etc.. to where it wouldn't go over 1,607mhz base speed; and overclocked the 980 TI to ~1,500-1,550mhz etc.. you would see WAY more difference than a measl y~50mhz would make.

I've seen water cooled 1,600mhz 980 TI, and they don't get to 1080 levels; sorry to say. They are still around 15% slower on average.
 
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post #114 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poisoner View Post

6000 series is vliw4
lol.biggrin.gif
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post #115 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poisoner View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Captain here: 6870 is vliw5 and nice try, btw.

6000 series is vliw4

The 6870 is a rebrand of 5870.
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post #116 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

The 6870 is a rebrand of 5870.
2x tessellation, 2/3rds the shaders.
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post #117 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

The 6870 is a rebrand of 5870.
No it's not, this is the time were AMD moved everything up a tier (+1XX) in terms of naming.
post #118 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post

gonna copy paste this from another thread...;
what does that red shill wall of text have to do with actual async benchmark gaming results that I just linked you ?

read em again - async gives only a few percent fps increase in games (saw the exact same story when the RotR async patch came out)

Wasn't RotR "Nvidia async"?

also, why of all quotes that you could have made did you choose that one?
post #119 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

4096 Vega wont beat your above average 980Ti by any considerable margin (if at all) either wink.gif

Wait what? 78% more cores than Polaris 10 or whatever the 480 is. HBM, meaning bandwidth will be no issue, on Vega. Therefore we can use the 480-performs-like-a-390X numbers as opposed to the 480-performs-like-a-290 numbers. Presumably Vega will be clocked the same as Polaris, at about 1100-1200MHz.

Now. Let's look at a 390X vs a 980Ti. For example, here. This is one of those factory overclocked to a ridiculous degree cards, beating a standard 980Ti by about 20-25%, and a basic 390X does 66% as well minimum. 0.66*1.78 = 1.17, meaning Vega ought to do about 15-20% better than even the fastest 980Tis, probably a bit less (but not significantly) because GPUs don't scale perfectly.

TL;DR math says you're wrong and Vega ought to be pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

He specifically says that he COULDN'T get the 1080 low enough to meet the 980 TI's clock speed (further evidence that he doesn't know what he's doing as you can simply get a software capable of underclocking) So he just goes and CUTS THE POWER TARGET IN HALF!!

This does NOT "just" lower it to the same clock speed as the 980 TI, it STARVES the card! The GTX 1080 with 50% power target only has a 90 watt TDP to work with in this case which will drastically interfere with how the memory and general operations perform. It's outright unfair to cripple the TDP on the 1080 to 90 watts and then claim its a FAIR comparison to a 250 watt 980 TI!

That's not necessarily true, and in fact was one of the reasons the R9 Nano can do as well as it does vs the Fury X (about 90%) while consuming a bit more than half the power. Tests done here. I believe AMD said that officially as well, but I can't find the quote. The same idea might apply here. With lower frequencies, you need less voltage, and processors scale with the square of the voltage. If the average frequency is 90% and the average voltage can be just 20% less, you're looking at under 60% the power consumption vs stock and 90% the performance, a dramatic increase in energy efficiency.

That said, that only applies to the processor. I do not know if memory follows the same trends (I assume yes) and if its voltage and frequency are dynamic in a modern GPU, or at least dynamic enough to make a difference. This also assumes that Nvidia's power targets are "smart" enough to lower the voltage. If they just cut the frequency then there might be an issue.
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post #120 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Wait what? 78% more cores than Polaris 10 or whatever the 480 is. HBM, meaning bandwidth will be no issue, on Vega. Therefore we can use the 480-performs-like-a-390X numbers as opposed to the 480-performs-like-a-290 numbers. Presumably Vega will be clocked the same as Polaris, at about 1100-1200MHz.

Now. Let's look at a 390X vs a 980Ti. For example, here. This is one of those factory overclocked to a ridiculous degree cards, beating a standard 980Ti by about 20-25%, and a basic 390X does 66% as well minimum. 0.66*1.78 = 1.17, meaning Vega ought to do about 15-20% better than even the fastest 980Tis, probably a bit less (but not significantly) because GPUs don't scale perfectly.

TL;DR math says you're wrong and Vega ought to be pretty good.
That's not necessarily true, and in fact was one of the reasons the R9 Nano can do as well as it does vs the Fury X (about 90%) while consuming a bit more than half the power. Tests done here. I believe AMD said that officially as well, but I can't find the quote. The same idea might apply here. With lower frequencies, you need less voltage, and processors scale with the square of the voltage. If the average frequency is 90% and the average voltage can be just 20% less, you're looking at under 60% the power consumption vs stock and 90% the performance, a dramatic increase in energy efficiency.

That said, that only applies to the processor. I do not know if memory follows the same trends (I assume yes) and if its voltage and frequency are dynamic in a modern GPU, or at least dynamic enough to make a difference. This also assumes that Nvidia's power targets are "smart" enough to lower the voltage. If they just cut the frequency then there might be an issue.


The R9 Nano is a pretty bad example to use. The Nano performs WORSE than a 390X in that review! That literally proves my point that cutting power to a card does more than just linearly lower clock speed, it cripples performance.


And no, GPU Boost 3.0 isn't fully implemented yet; there's quite a few quirks on it especially on the founders edition cards (notice how i'm criticizing Nvidia here. I'm not a total fanboy, i have my problems with Nvidia. Hell i SUED Nvidia over the GTX 970 issue. I have no love for them, i just like quality high end GPUs)

The Voltage typically doesn't follow a curve when you cut the power target a lot like that; as voltage doesn't scale linearly. For example, running a 1080 at 1200mhz could very well require 75% the power as running it at 2,000mhz for all we know. My point is that this guy literally tried for 5 whole seconds to downclock the card and couldn't do it so he gave up (which is a highly simple task i might add...you can literally underclock with a dozen seperate softwares. Or just by turning GPU Boost off. There's NO excuse for why he didn't do this and this is the reason why i assume he's being biased [that and his horrid history of being biased against Nvidia])

The very fact that a 1,600mhz overclocked 980 TI doesn't reach the same performance as a base speed 1,607mhz 1080 proves that his test is flawed. period.
 
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