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[AdoredTV] Pascal vs Maxwell at same clockspeeds, same FLOPS (1080 vs 980 Ti) - Page 13

post #121 of 305

Yeah, I did this before him and I didn't struggle for ages in the process. I have different results than him, but then again, I did not starve the card of power. And without the tons of math, which I kept in the background and gave a brief conclusion and explanation.

Whatever, check it out if you want. This is not a plug, I don't care, honestly.

My results were that Pascal is either slightly slower or around 10% faster on average at same TFLOPS. Which is little, but it is dubbed Paxwell by most of us. Its saving grace is FinFET and resulting high clocks.

This is GTX 1070 vs GTX 980, i think it is more suitable.
Edited by MindBlank - 7/28/16 at 9:20am
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post #122 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by headd View Post

good test, but bad cards.He should compare GTX1070 vs GTX980
GTX980 at 1500/8000 vs GTX1070 at 1500/8000

GTX980TI have 337GB/s and 1080 only 320GB/s.96rops vs 64rops.

I already test that and 1070 is 10-20% faster at same clock vs GTX980 Btw.
Interesting... Let's see...

GTX 980 vs GTX 1070
2048 vs 1920 CUDA cores...
128 vs 120 Texture units
64 vs 64 ROPs

GTX 1070 10-20% faster than GTX 980 at same clocks? Yeah right... Either you show what you did with data or I simply do not believe it.
post #123 of 305
What is 6870 then? I thought the 5900 are dual GPU.

Why would they use VLIW4 on 6900 and VLIW5 on 6800
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post #124 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yttrium View Post

Wasn't RotR "Nvidia async"?

also, why of all quotes that you could have made did you choose that one?
ChevChelios is a troll. Why do people reply to it? Just add it to the ignore list and move on, it fails to see reason regarding anything that challenges Nvidia in any way.
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post #125 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBlank View Post


Yeah, I did this before him and I didn't struggle for ages in the process. I have different results than him, but then again, I did not starve the card of power. And without the tons of math, which I kept in the background and gave a brief conclusion and explanation.

Whatever, check it out if you want. This is not a plug, I don't care, honestly.

My results were that Pascal is either slightly slower or around 10% faster on average at same TFLOPS. Which is little, but it is dubbed Paxwell by most of us. Its saving grace is FinFET and resulting high clocks.


Thanks for posting. Interesting.

You also have to remember that the 1070 only has GDDR5 not GDDR5X which is much closer to the 970 vs 980 memory specs, and that it is a cut-down die so by nature will be lower binned etc.. And from the video i'd say the 10% faster is much more common thatn "slightly slower", so this is much more similar to what i've been saying.

The fact of the matter is, Pascal is NOT maxwell on 16nm. There's FAR more to it than that. It has an entirely different architecture which is proven by the GPU imagery, It has GDDR5X on the 1080 and GP102 cards, it has better memory compression, it has several new technologies that have yet to be utilized etc..

Plus, what nobody seems to mention, is that the 900 series Maxwell already have DOZENS of driver updates which have provided performance increases over time. Once the 1000 series has those driver updates it will also gain a fairly decent performance boost on top of the 10% faster that you're currently seeing.

In the end i think the actual best comparisons are "GTX 970 vs 1070" and "GTX 1080 vs 980" and "TITAN X vs TITAN XP"
Edited by DarkIdeals - 7/28/16 at 9:29am
 
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post #126 of 305
Quote:
Wait what? 78% more cores than Polaris 10 or whatever the 480 is. HBM, meaning bandwidth will be no issue, on Vega. Therefore we can use the 480-performs-like-a-390X numbers as opposed to the 480-performs-like-a-290 numbers. Presumably Vega will be clocked the same as Polaris, at about 1100-1200MHz.

Now. Let's look at a 390X vs a 980Ti. For example, here. This is one of those factory overclocked to a ridiculous degree cards, beating a standard 980Ti by about 20-25%, and a basic 390X does 66% as well minimum. 0.66*1.78 = 1.17, meaning Vega ought to do about 15-20% better than even the fastest 980Tis, probably a bit less (but not significantly) because GPUs don't scale perfectly.

TL;DR math says you're wrong and Vega ought to be pretty good.
theres your problem

its gonna be less than x1.78 actual gain and not just a bit less .. and I also am not certain of both bolded parts .. 480 is not 390X level, period, and no guarantee Vega will be able to clock/OC as good as Polaris with that much more cores

aka in the end on par with a stock 1080 or uber OCed 980Ti .. certainly not well ahead of either of them which is what I said



and read the original post
Quote:
With maximum OC on the 1080 (~2.1 GHz) it was 10-15% faster at 1440p.

I'm not changing card, buying new block, spending time on custom firmware / finding maximum stable OC for such a little increase in performance. Waste of time and money.
10-15% increase wasnt enough for him to switch, so 4096 Vega would have to beat that result by a good margin to be upgrade-worthy and I just dont see that happening
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post #127 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

What is 6870 then? I thought the 5900 are dual GPU.

Why would they use VLIW4 on 6900 and VLIW5 on 6800

Vliw4 is newer/better than vliw5. 6800 are terrascale 2 vliw5. 6900 are terrascale 3 vliw4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_HD_6000_Series

"Cayman is based on new 4-way VLIW architecture, which was chosen over AMD's older VLIW5 in order to reduce complexity in the design of AMD's stream processors. Studies showed that few applications fully leveraged the extra stage in a VLIW5 SP. Reducing the stream processors to VLIW4 allows AMD to save on transistors for each individual SP and add more overall in the future"

Well that future never came lol.

Alas, let's not further discuss amd in this thread, deal ?
Edited by Catscratch - 7/28/16 at 9:34am
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post #128 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by renx View Post

This mate ADOREDTV is kind of disappointing me. He's completely biased.
As soon as I saw the RX480 consumption/performance relation, I knew that there's no such thing as a Master Plan. Most likely a struggle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post



They don't seem to get that AMD doing bad is the reason why Nvidia prices are high and performance isn't pushed to the UTMOST limit etc.. Why would they when they have ZERO competition in the high end market?

Like you said, the RX 480, even on a node shrink needs ~200 watts; that's literally a GTX 970 level card with 14nm, but it's still using more watts than a GTX 1080 lol.

People seem to think Vega is going to be a whole new architecture; i can almost guarantee you it will simply be 'large die polaris' so to speak. It'll be the same architecture just with the 4096 SP's. Only reason it's taking so long is that HBM2 isn't ready (which is why the 1080 and TITAN XP aren't using it otherwise they'd be delayed too. Only reason the Tesla P100 had HBM2 is that they only sell a few hundred of those super expensive cards as they are only available in a $130,000 supercomputer until end of year) and they are having trouble with bad yields due to deciding to go with 14nm GloFlo instead of like the 16nm FinFET Nvidia went with which might turn out to be a very poor decision for AMD; as 14nm yields will be even worse than the already bad yields of 16nm. And AMD doesn't have the sheer massive Capital ($$$) to handle massively bad yields like Nvidia can.

AdoredTV isn't biased. He said that power consumption wasn't as good as some other cards but that they have made progress (albeit uncertain what the new node provided versus arch changes) Now, any person who understands how a monopoly works will get why we should be praying that vega isn't going to be a bad card, Just like zen. Nvidia (and intel) might still deliver better products however they wouldn't be in a rush to deliver better prices. And yes, AMD would probaly do the same if they had the monopoly.

Now for Darkdeals, they mentioned on twitter when their "new vega architecture" was done, I'm pretty sure that means its a new arch.
Source: http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/93941-amds-raja-koduri-design-team-celebrate-vega-10-milestone/
(Sorry, couldn't find original tweet)

That was worry #1, now for worry #2 about where the vega chips are going to be manufactured I can't give definitive answeres however there were rumours that Glofo got the production chain of the RX480 and down while ZEN and Vega are going to be produced at TSMC.
Source: http://vrworld.com/2016/01/19/amd-to-offer-finfet-chips-with-both-tsmc-and-globalfoundries/

and for the bad yields part, 14/16 is pretty much the same. There's not going to be a noticeable difference for us consumers. Different arch will make comparing impossible anyway. As for the last part, having a massive capital doesn't improve yields as far as I know. AMD finally has money (sort of) so its a moot point.
post #129 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yttrium View Post

about where the vega chips are going to be manufactured I can't give definitive answeres however there were rumours that Glofo got the production chain of the RX480 and down while ZEN and Vega are going to be produced at TSMC.
Source: http://vrworld.com/2016/01/19/amd-to-offer-finfet-chips-with-both-tsmc-and-globalfoundries/
january 2016 source ?
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post #130 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevChelios View Post

theres your problem

its gonna be less than x1.78 actual gain and not just a bit less .. and I also am not certain of both bolded parts .. 480 is not 390X level, period, and no guarantee Vega will be able to clock/OC as good as Polaris with that much more cores

aka in the end on par with a stock 1080 or uber OCed 980Ti .. certainly not well ahead of either of them which is what I said



and read the original post
10-15% increase wasnt enough for him to switch, so 4096 Vega would have to beat that result by a good margin to be upgrade-worthy and I just dont see that happening


Yeah i'm kinda baffled that people still think " X% more Cores = X% Performance boost". For example, the TITAN X (maxwell) has 50% more cores than the 980; but was only about 40% faster than the 980 (sometimes 35%). Streaming Processor/Cuda cores are not an accurate measure of performance by themselves.

A 78% increase in cores, especially GCN ones, will likely net around a 50% performance increase. And as you said the 480 is nowhere near 390X performance, it doesn't even quite hit 390 levels. It's a bit slower or in some cases about the same as a stock speed GTX 970 which varies from slightly slower than a regular 390 (non x) to slightly faster than regular 390.


And we've seen from Polaris that it doesn't overclock very well. We were promised ~1,600mhz but you're lucky to hit 1,350 - 1,400 or so at most even after the power issue driver fix that didn't fix much but is still called a fix.


I also keep seeing people saying "well i'll just wait for Vega 11" (assuming Vega 11 is really the biggest one) but they don't seem to realize that the 4096 SP unit card IS the larger Vega 11. The smaller Vega 10 (again assuming it really is "10 smaller, 11 bigger") will be more like the Fury (non x) in having ~3,584 SP units.


My personal estimate is that Vega 10 3,584 SP card will be roughly GTX 980 TI level and that the Vega 10 full fat 4,096 SP card will be as fast as an overclocked GTX 1070 or MAYBE as fast as a stock 1080.


I mean heck, if we look at the R9 300/Fury series we see that the difference between the 390X and the Fury-X was only ~20-25% at most. So if we look at the RX 480 which is basically the replacement for the 390 series; we could literally only see ~20% gain for Vega 10 3584 SP card; and ~35% for the full fat one. It's always possible, and i hope AMD does better than that, but it's kinda iffy judging from Polaris.
 
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