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[Nvidia] Maxwell Moved to Legacy - Page 14

post #131 of 142
pascal will also be put on legacy next year... tongue.gif
post #132 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Another thought.

Pascal isn't really a new architecture. It's more like Maxwell ver. 3.

Maxwell ver. 1 - GTX 750, 750 Ti
Maxwell ver. 2 - GTX 900 series, Titan X
Maxwell ver. 3 - GTX 1000 series, Titan XP

The only reason that Nvidia can even call the 1000 series a new architecture is because of the VR specific features and new NVENC generation. Beyond that, it's basically Maxwell on a shrunken node.


Also, there's a reason that AMD still calls Polaris "GCN"


HD 7970 block diagram:



Polaris 10 block diagram:




Wow... that looks similar. Could it be that maybe when AMD makes a driver-level optimization for one of their cards, the other cards in their GCN family also benefit because the architecture is almost identical? thinking.gif

And yet, in the time that AMD has basically been refining the same architecture over and over again, Nvidia has released two fundamentally different architectures (Kepler and Maxwell)? Yea, it's all a by product of Fermi, I get that. But Nvidia has basically taken what was a very compute-heavy, resource hog, runs hot, and uses tons of power architecture and 2 generations later, we have Pascal, which uses very little power for the performance it produces?

There's a reason Nvidia is #1 in the market at the moment; they have the better architecture at the time of writing this, and they know how to market it. If AMD can release a product that has the same efficiency as Pascal, is the same speed, and costs even 10% less, they will take the market by storm, even without a crazy marketing team.

Between GCN 1.0 in Tahiti and Polaris 10 in 480 there are pretty much as fundamental changes as going from Kepler to Pascal. Extra ACE, color compression , redone geometry capabilities ,the addition of primitive discard accelerator, redone front end etc. the fact that Tahiti is relevant today whereas gk104 is not is a combination of dx12/vulkan being mantle based hence designed for GCN and Nvidia flatly abandoning its older archs before their time is up.
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post #133 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoy View Post

pascal will also be put on legacy next year... tongue.gif

At least then NVidia can make the excuse that Pascal got "Enhanced Async Compute", a superclocked pre-emption that can switch between multiple tasks to nearly hide its inability to execute parallel tasks.
post #134 of 142
Idk if I should sell my recently purchased EVGA 980 Ti FTW edition I got used for 350 US dollars...

Great card but...

If I find a good deal later this year on a 1070, Im jumping on it and selling my 980 Ti. I dont really buy new unless it hits a sweet spot in my wallet...
post #135 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyae86 View Post

Idk if I should sell my recently purchased EVGA 980 Ti FTW edition I got used for 350 US dollars...

Great card but...

If I find a good deal later this year on a 1070, Im jumping on it and selling my 980 Ti. I dont really buy new unless it hits a sweet spot in my wallet...

Ehhh...man, you 980Ti is as good as 1070. It was proven in many tests already, OCed 980Ti=OCed 1070.

Card went to Legacy- means production of them is stopped. They will be still supported to some point. Also thing is- Pascal is really same architecture.

By the time 1000 series will get significant boost over 900 series (bigger than currently) thanks to just drives- belive me you will be looking at Volta X and Volta Ti and Pascal will move to Legacy.

Right now Nividia is release new graphic card generation faster than previous one can become even little bit obsolete.

Hell, if we are talking about 1080p and 1440p gaming- GPU are slowly starting to be more powerfull than really needed. Games take years to develop, cutting-edge graphic games are once per 3-4 years, while we will have 3 GPU generations during this time.

Nvidia is pushing too hard imo with new GPUs.

They should start releasing new generation each 2 years , not each year.
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post #136 of 142
meanwhile amd has 7000 series still supported. thumb.gif
post #137 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweezlednutball View Post

meanwhile amd has 7000 series still supported. thumb.gif

We already went over this; the 400 series, 2 years older than the 7000 series, is still supported so Nvidia currently keeps support for old products longer than AMD.

Nvidia's architectures did age badly, they were designed to be very balanced architectures for their time so as games moved to different graphics loads, for which Nvidia's architectures were not balanced, they were unable to maintain performance as well AMD's GCN. This is not due to Nvidia dropping driver support but to the very forward thinking architecture that is GCN.
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post #138 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

We already went over this; the 400 series, 2 years older than the 7000 series, is still supported so Nvidia currently keeps support for old products longer than AMD.

Nvidia's architectures did age badly, they were designed to be very balanced architectures for their time so as games moved to different graphics loads, for which Nvidia's architectures were not balanced, they were unable to maintain performance as well AMD's GCN. This is not due to Nvidia dropping driver support but to the very forward thinking architecture that is GCN.

Again, paper support and actual support are very different things.

Updating the drivers on my 680 has not once given me better performance or comparability since the 700 series came out. The driver version numbers keep getting bigger, but that is it. Technically some SLI profiles are getting added for new titles, but as I no longer use SLI, that means nothing for me, along with the majority of other users.

Fact is Nvidia really does not support anything but their latest generation. Never has, and never will. Simply repackaging the same code for older cards and bundling it into the new drivers written for new cards is not the same as writing new drivers for those old cards.

AMD might officially announce the end of support more quickly, but as long as they are claiming support, they are actually providing it.

If I had to pick between the two styles of support, all other things being equal, as a consumer, I'd pick AMD's every time.



That all said, you are also correct about the architecture philosophies of the two brands. Nvidia does indeed tend to put out the best balance for right now and AMD puts out very forward thinking hardware, that have proverbial room to grow as long as the future goes according to their projections, but at the cost of lower efficiency right now. That is very much a part of why each company offers the style of support that they do. AMD gets big gains for continuing proper support for their last gen cards, while Nvidia would get much smaller gains, and thus has less incentive to do so.
Edited by Zero4549 - 8/1/16 at 1:54pm
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post #139 of 142
Meanwhile, 4XX cards are still readily supported.

Get over it. 9xx cards will be fine for the forseeable future. Until AMD/Nvidia pay devs to make their games even less optimized compared to their console versions as per usual to bloat up system requirements with marginal visual improvements over said versions.

I say this because that's exactly what happened with the 9xx series it seemed. Absurd requirements for console ports with barely significant visual improvements to justify it over the console versions.
post #140 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Another thought.

Pascal isn't really a new architecture. It's more like Maxwell ver. 3.

Maxwell ver. 1 - GTX 750, 750 Ti
Maxwell ver. 2 - GTX 900 series, Titan X
Maxwell ver. 3 - GTX 1000 series, Titan XP

The only reason that Nvidia can even call the 1000 series a new architecture is because of the VR specific features and new NVENC generation. Beyond that, it's basically Maxwell on a shrunken node.


Also, there's a reason that AMD still calls Polaris "GCN"


HD 7970 block diagram:



Polaris 10 block diagram:




Wow... that looks similar. Could it be that maybe when AMD makes a driver-level optimization for one of their cards, the other cards in their GCN family also benefit because the architecture is almost identical? thinking.gif

And yet, in the time that AMD has basically been refining the same architecture over and over again, Nvidia has released two fundamentally different architectures (Kepler and Maxwell)? Yea, it's all a by product of Fermi, I get that. But Nvidia has basically taken what was a very compute-heavy, resource hog, runs hot, and uses tons of power architecture and 2 generations later, we have Pascal, which uses very little power for the performance it produces?

There's a reason Nvidia is #1 in the market at the moment; they have the better architecture at the time of writing this, and they know how to market it. If AMD can release a product that has the same efficiency as Pascal, is the same speed, and costs even 10% less, they will take the market by storm, even without a crazy marketing team.

There are pretty large differences between some of the gcn versions. Tonga is where it all went wrong imo.
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