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[RedGamingTech] VULKAN & Graphics Technology Exclusive Interview With Khronos Group - Page 4

post #31 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Penguin View Post

Kinda doubt MS would allow AMD to fork their graphics API.





Xbox and W10 DX12 are not the same.
PC support? It's restricted to one operating system.

That comparison means nothing. Really. Nothing. AMD have been boasting about so many things, like they are the only ones who can run DX12, they are the only ones who can even run async etc etc. Means absolutely nothing.


And xbox and windows 10 DX12 is not the same, but it is in a way.
The tools the development environment gives you, allow you to transfer the core and all the graphical commands into a DX11 and recently DX12 paths, almost automatically. This is a huge advantage.

Sony API for example, there are a huge amount of tools to transfer all the code and calls of the OpenGL internally, into DX11. There are no tools to do it to OpenGL, let alone vulkan. And unless the next sony console supports vulkan, and if they are sticking with OpenGL, it will remain the same.

And restricted as it may, windows 10 currently is almost 50% according to steam (accept it or not, almost every gamer today has steam on his PC as his main source of games), and the promise of playing xbox games on the PC with the same purchase, is very appealing.
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post #32 of 85
I see Vulkan will be a success for mobile. For PC I don't know. I don't see any serious signs of adoption that threatens DX12 atm. Remains to seen.
post #33 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post


That comparison means nothing. Really. Nothing. AMD have been boasting about so many things, like they are the only ones who can run DX12, they are the only ones who can even run async etc etc. Means absolutely nothing.


And xbox and windows 10 DX12 is not the same, but it is in a way.
The tools the development environment gives you, allow you to transfer the core and all the graphical commands into a DX11 and recently DX12 paths, almost automatically. This is a huge advantage.

Sony API for example, there are a huge amount of tools to transfer all the code and calls of the OpenGL internally, into DX11. There are no tools to do it to OpenGL, let alone vulkan. And unless the next sony console supports vulkan, and if they are sticking with OpenGL, it will remain the same.

And restricted as it may, windows 10 currently is almost 50% according to steam (accept it or not, almost every gamer today has steam on his PC as his main source of games), and the promise of playing xbox games on the PC with the same purchase, is very appealing.

The comparison means nothing? I'm merely saying that AMD played a bigger role with the development of DX12 than people admit. I'm not saying that they have an inherit advantage going forward as the competition has much more resources. Yes, MS and Sony provide some pretty nice shims/abstractions and it's effective but probably not very efficient. As stated by various developers, going from one explicit API to another shouldn't be a great deal of work compared to DX11/OpenGL > DX12/Vulkan. Vulkan will be widely used but it remains to be seen how much for PC and possibly gaming consoles.

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post #34 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

And restricted as it may, windows 10 currently is almost 50% according to steam (accept it or not, almost every gamer today has steam on his PC as his main source of games), and the promise of playing xbox games on the PC with the same purchase, is very appealing.
I like how he discard 50% of the OS share lol

for the store, it is a huge deal. If Microsoft can give deep discount as much as steam, that Unified cross buying store, might prompt me to buy Xbox.(I wasnt a fan of buying console)

I still think Vulkan is a loss cause in PC gaming without Sony & apple support.
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post #35 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post


OSX doesn't have vulkan support, at all. No idea why you put it there.

And the only game which has a full vulkan support right now (not in beta or incoming), is doom, which is not even available to OSX because OSX doesn't even support OpenGL 4.5.
So for OSX, it is 0/4.

As for linux, doom and ashes don't have linux versions yet. So it is 2/4, and no full vulkan support.

So porting, easier, no. Porting a game to OSX or linux (and unless apple drops their metal API for MacOS which I doubt), isn't going to be any easy achievement.

 

My bad, was going by this list, so Ashes is slated to have a Linux/Mac version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_Vulkan_support (and before anyone mentions it, yes, the DX12 list is much longer)

 

Couldn't find any info on what Ashes on Mac is going to use. Metal or Vulkan via Molten?

 

Apparently Mac OS can use Vulkan via Molten: https://moltengl.com/

 

I think it would easier to port a Windows game to Linux if the 3D API is the same (compared to D3D->OGL). Sure, it will still be difficult because they need to port networking, sound, controls, etc, and they need to secure the time/funding to do all that.

post #36 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

DX12 was actually in development before mantle was available. DX12 was announced in early 2014, a few months before AMD announced their first beta SDK (even though it was available in BF4 earlier, SDK and the actual API was still exclusive to AMD and DICE only). This means that both have been in development since early 2013.

DX12 was changed during the end of 2014 and 2015 to a more low level API because of mantle, and some ideas of mantle did went into it, but was not developed from mantle like people claim. Mantle was never public, and source was not available until much later in 2015, somewhere around the time AMD announced that they are killing mantle.
Mantle was announced and demonstrated in September 2013, with the first public application (Battlefield) release by the end of the year. AMD already had software and drivers running Mantle when they demo'd it in 2013, which means it had been in development for quite a long period before.

Microsoft announced DX12 in March 2014, and the first public DX12 application wasn't released until 2015, which is when the first beta DX12 drivers started showing up as well. The modern DX12 development timeline starts way after Mantle, and many developers have said DX12 takes a lot of its inspiration from Mantle.
post #37 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

That comparison means nothing. Really. Nothing. AMD have been boasting about so many things, like they are the only ones who can run DX12, they are the only ones who can even run async etc etc. Means absolutely nothing.

You have to be completely delusional to think DX12 came first, or to think DX12 didn't build off of Mantel.. The amount of misinformation in your posts is always entertaining. rolleyes.gif

Care to provide some proof about AMD saying they're the only ones who can run DX12?

In fact, it's the company you cheerlead for who have been the ones insinuating it, not AMD..



AMD also never said no one else can do Async, they've said they are the only ones who can do Asynchronous Shading, which they are. Pascal and Maxwell cannot do Compute + Graphics in parallel, Maxwell is also completely hopeless with either of them..
Edited by GorillaSceptre - 8/2/16 at 9:07am
post #38 of 85
Not to mention that the support in "100% Support DirectX 12" for nvidia should be in quotes, considering the vast majority of those GPUs only support the DX11 feature level even when in DirectX 12 mode.
post #39 of 85
Oh god... Not this again... I'll repeat this once more in these forums.... This time a short version.

GCN 1.0 from 2011 is missing 4 features for full FL12_1 support. Pascal from 2016 is missing 5 of them. GCN 1.0 is closer to having full DX12 support than Pascal.

Let that sink in.
post #40 of 85
Don't the few games running Vulkan technically work better on both AMD and Nvidia hardware, where both Nvidia and AMD GPUs run better running Vulkan than DX11?
There hasn't been any "Nvidia running X% slower on X games in Vulkan" like there has with DX12, why wouldn't people want Vulkan to do well considering that both IHVs see performance gains?
Not to mention multi-platform, etc.


Not sure how I feel about a Vulkan discussion devolving into a DX12 discussion though...
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