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[Various] RX 470 Reviews - Page 17

post #161 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

What likely happened is AMD was shocked by the price to performance of what was supposedly a gtx 1070 that was 50% faster than an rx480 at a supposed $379.

At this point AMD knew the max they could sell their card for 249, but knowing how Nvidia cards are configured, they knew a 1060 was likely to come out at a very competitive price with the rx480.

But AMD knew they needed to launch to gain back marketshare and had to do this even at the cost of profits. What originally AMD wanted to do is launch the rx480 at 300 dollars or so. But with the 1070 pricing(the marketed price, AMD could not anticipate the FE Gouge), they couldn't launch it at that price and had to lower it to 239.99. However, because Nvidia was going to launch the 1060 much sooner than they initially thought, even the rx 480 8gb wasn't a good enough value proposition. Internally, you could predict, the 1060 was going to perform about 8 percent better with a price around 249.99 and when you add the nvidia brand, it will out compete the rx 480 at 239.99. So what AMD did to counter this was launch the rx480 4gb at 199.99.

You could tell this was a last minute change because all initial cards had 8gb of 2ghz ddr5 on it. This was not initially planned. However this would cause chaos and cannibalization with the rest of AMD lineup. And that's exactly happened, basically because of the high cost of finfet, AMD was in a dilemma. Basically for the rest of the rx series pricing to make sense, AMD would have to price their products below cost or basically have products with bad price to performance compared to the rx480 4gb. The latter is what is happening.

The same thing is going to happen with the rx460 as well. It's going to have 35-40% of the performance of the rx480 4gb but it will be price only 50 to 60% of the cost.

AMD pricing structure is all messed up and anyone that knows about product segmentation and product lines, knows you don't price your products so close together to cause confusion and cannibalization of sales. The worst thing is, the rx 480 4gb is likely going to be the most desired product from AMD lineup and yet it is going to have the lowest potential sales volume because its requires a full working Polaris die and AMD doesn't want to to sell it because the 8gb version is more profitable.

Pricing the rx470 at 150 is simply unprofitable and AMD can't afford to take the hit. AMD is lucky mining is going on right now, otherwise these rx 470's wouldn't sell at their msrp.
You answered your own question unintentionally. Basically when two different products that perform sort of the same depending on the AIB, with very similar pricing, you have cannibalization of sales. When the pricing is this close a rx 480 4gb sale is the lost sale of an rx 470 and an rx470 sale is potentially a lost rx 480 4gb sale. You want distinct pricing and performance to segment the market to expand your potential revenue. Targeting the same segment with two different chips that serve the same purpose is a waste and causes confusion in the marketplace.

I know at best, all we speak is speculation, but deducting from what we can see in the real world and not internally, +1 brother.

Vega is their next platform. I hope they don't make this mistake there.
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post #162 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

You answered your own question unintentionally. Basically when two different products that perform sort of the same depending on the AIB, with very similar pricing, you have cannibalization of sales. When the pricing is this close a rx 480 4gb sale is the lost sale of an rx 470 and an rx470 sale is potentially a lost rx 480 4gb sale. You want distinct pricing and performance to segment the market to expand your potential revenue. Targeting the same segment with two different chips that serve the same purpose is a waste and causes confusion in the marketplace.

There wont be continued availability of the RX 480 4gb reference card at any price. It was a stopgap solution and no more are being pushed into the market. This has happened before when a price point needed to be filled before the actual product for that price point was available.
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post #163 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkenietz View Post

Still at $199 it's a decent value compared to the $270-$280 rx 480 customs, even the 4gb 480 customs when you consider how close they are to each other.

[H] sums it up pretty well in their review:
Quote:
The PowerColor Red Devil Radeon RX 470 would be a great choice for a fully customized video card based on the Radeon RX 470 GPU. It performs well, stays silent, and is packed full of high-end hardware built for overclocking.

The one issue we see after finishing our initial testing of the RX 470 in this custom package, is that there is no price separation between this custom RX 470 and the "stock" RX 480 4GB card. We are going to follow up this review and test exactly that out. As we have stated clearly in the past, we very much think the RX 480 is a "1080p card," and we think at 1080p gaming, at $200, the stock RX 480 4GB would likely be a better value in terms of performance. We do not think you need a $240 RX 480 8GB card for 1080p gaming however. Kyle has suggested in the past that AMD's GPU stack is "collapsing" and I see this happening as we now have a lot of AMD video card models fitting into a small dollar range. Another issue when making a purchasing decision on the RX 480 4GB card is likely to be finding it in stock as well, which might not be an easy thing. That said, we do not know at this time what RX 470 inventory is going to look like either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

4gb RX 480 @ $199 was reference, 4gb RX 470 @ $199 is not. If a custom RX 470 performs like the RX 480 4gb reference card and is more available, how is it not a winner?


A reference RX 480 outperforms an AIB RX 470 at the same price. How is it a winner?
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post #164 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

There wont be continued availability of the RX 480 4gb reference card at any price. It was a stopgap solution and no more are being pushed into the market. This has happened before when a price point needed to be filled before the actual product for that price point was available.

If that's the case and AMD intended on the 470 being a starting at $199 card then they messed up. Even at $199 it will cannibalize the 480 sales and $40 between tiers is not enough of a gap, but given the performance difference, more than $40 is too much of a gap. Screwed from the get go
post #165 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

[H] sums it up pretty well in their review:

A reference RX 480 outperforms an AIB RX 470 at the same price. How is it a winner?

Actually, it does not. At least not by any significant amount. AIB cards can clock higher more reliably, an AIB RX 470 actually beats the reference RX 480 in some cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkenietz View Post

If that's the case and AMD intended on the 470 being a starting at $199 card then they messed up. Even at $199 it will cannibalize the 480 sales and $40 between tiers is not enough of a gap, but given the performance difference, more than $40 is too much of a gap. Screwed from the get go

No, the RX 470 is targeted at the $180 range. AIB cards can be had for $199. $199 for the Devil 470 VS $260 for the Devil 480. The 470 is not even a whole tier down, RX 480 is analogous to the 390X and the RX 470 is analogous to the 390.
Edited by KarathKasun - 8/4/16 at 2:09pm
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post #166 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

There wont be continued availability of the RX 480 4gb reference card at any price.

Do you have a source for this? Lets assume that your claim is true and the reference 480 4GB is no longer available. How about AIB models like the 4GB RX 480 Nitro which has a MSRP of $219?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Actually, it does not.

Have a source?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

At least not by any significant amount.

What value do you find to be significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

AIB cards can clock higher more reliably, an AIB RX 470 actually beats the reference RX 480 in some cases.


I must not be looking hard enough as I don't see a single case of the RX 470 outperforming a RX 480...
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post #167 of 437
guys buy a used
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Do you have a source for this? Lets assume that your claim is true and the reference 480 4GB is no longer available. How about AIB models like the 4GB RX 480 Nitro which has a MSRP of $219?
Have a source?
What value do you find to be significant?
I must not be looking hard enough as I don't see a single case of the RX 470 outperforming a RX 480...

We should create the Church of AMD for him...

All of AMD's cards so far are too expensive, prices are further exacerbated by miners.
Gamers will not see the cards and no one will talk about it.
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post #168 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieanotherday View Post

guys buy a used
We should create the Church of AMD for him...

All of AMD's cards so far are too expensive, prices are further exacerbated by miners.
Gamers will not see the cards and no one will talk about it.

Both AMD and nVidia cards are too expensive. You might get a little less performance with most of AMDs cards, but they are cheaper than nVidias.
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post #169 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Do you have a source for this? Lets assume that your claim is true and the reference 480 4GB is no longer available. How about AIB models like the 4GB RX 480 Nitro which has a MSRP of $219?
Have a source?
What value do you find to be significant?
I must not be looking hard enough as I don't see a single case of the RX 470 outperforming a RX 480...

http://semiaccurate.com/2016/08/04/amds-radeon-rx-470-review/

In ROP limited situations, an AIB RX 470 with higher clocks than 1266 will outperform a reference RX 480. In shader bound situations the RX 480 will be about 10% faster. None of this is rocket science, its pretty simple to extrapolate the performance from the number active units on the chip.

News of the RX 480 4gb reference card being discontinued is pretty old now, the fact that they are actually 8gb cards with a firmware memory limitation pretty much confirms this. Why sell a card for $40 less than its value if you dont have to anymore?
Edited by KarathKasun - 8/4/16 at 3:08pm
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Ryzen R5 1400 MSI B350M Gaming Pro Zotac GTX 670 4GB G.SKILL FORTIS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
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WD Green 3tb Wraith Stealth Windows 10 Debian 8.7 
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ViewSonic VX-2257-8 Chinese backlit mechanical Kingwin 850w Chinese laser optical 
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post #170 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemama1956 View Post

Both AMD and nVidia cards are too expensive. You might get a little less performance with most of AMDs cards, but they are cheaper than nVidias.

If I had to buy a card right now, I'd get a 1070. readily available,

RX 480 is over $300.
Phenom II X4 955
(11 items)
 
Phenom II X4 20
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.72Ghz MSI NF980 G65 HD 6970 2 x 4GB Ripjaws DDR3 1600 
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Kingston HyperX SATA III 128GB SSD Stock Win 7 Ultimate 2 23" 1080p 
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Logitech G15 Corsair HX650 Thermaltake Soprano Snow 
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Phenom II X4 20 @ 3.22Ghz (unlocked X3 720) Asrock 870 Extreme 3 GTX 460 with Gelid Icy Vision Cooler 2 x 4GB Ripjaws DDR3 1600 
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Kingston HyperX SATA III 128GB SSD Stock Win 7 Ultimate 27" 1080p 
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Phenom II X4 955
(11 items)
 
Phenom II X4 20
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.72Ghz MSI NF980 G65 HD 6970 2 x 4GB Ripjaws DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston HyperX SATA III 128GB SSD Stock Win 7 Ultimate 2 23" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCase
Logitech G15 Corsair HX650 Thermaltake Soprano Snow 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X4 20 @ 3.22Ghz (unlocked X3 720) Asrock 870 Extreme 3 GTX 460 with Gelid Icy Vision Cooler 2 x 4GB Ripjaws DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston HyperX SATA III 128GB SSD Stock Win 7 Ultimate 27" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCase
Sidewinder X4 Antec Eco 620 Antec 900 
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