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[Various] RX 470 Reviews - Page 42

post #411 of 437
The only reason for me to go for the 8GB versions of the card will be if you are getting the Sapphire Nitro RX 470 8 GB BECAUSE it uses 2000 mhz ram. This the 2000 mhz ram gives you higher bandwight on that 256bit bus. All the other 470's run on either 1750 or even 1650 mhz ram giving them even less bandwight.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2861/radeon-rx-470

As for the RX 480 most of t he 8 GB models use 2000 mhz ram so that's the main reason imo they cost much more compared to their 4 GB versions
It's not only +4 GB but also all the 8 GB are more expensive overall.
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post #412 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

If a game needs more than ~4gb of VRAM a single 470/480 would give you a slideshow. 256gb/s is good for 4gb of assets at ~60 FPS and 8gb at ~30 FPS (in a best case scenario).

That card will run out of juice to drive things before it runs out of VRAM even with "only" 4 GB. The GPU-z and other programs like that actually do not report the real number that game is "needing" to run - they include cache which is a lot more situational thing and might lead to some minor texture pop in if running particularly high texture levels, but not a slideshow. Slideshow happens when card truly runs out of VRAM but when that happens the effect is quite dramatic - straight to single digit fps from wherever you were sitting before. In my experience about 3-4 fps with dual channel ram and about 7-8 fps with quad channel.

Let me add that those relatively high RAM capacities on the modern cards are more for marketing than because of actual needs, considering the resolutions people run normally. In my experience you can stretch 1 GB as far as 8 megapixels (4k or 4x 1080p screens) with AA off. With 2 GB you will run into the wall rarely when running 8 megapixels or higher screen reso (4K or above) and you go for the highest available texture size + apply more than 2x AA. Depends on the game, perhaps some more recent games are more vRAM hungry. With 3 GB I did not encounter the vRAM limit ever, normally the card ran out of juice before it ran out of vRAM when playing at 5400x1920 reso (5x1080 eyefinity). Now I have 8 GB ofc (390X) and I honestly can not imagine what would I need to do to run out of vRAM in a game. This opinion/impression is based on running higher than normal resolutions for the past 5-6 years on pathetically under-powered hardware for such resolutions. Starting with a single 5770 and 3x1080p eyefinity, going to 2x 6770 crossfire and 5x1080p eyefinity, followed by a 7870 and still 5x1080p, then by a 4K screen + 4 auxiliary displays, then a single 7950 and same setup and now I'm already getting somewhere with 390X at 4K screen plus 4 auxiliary 1080p screen on 7870.
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post #413 of 437
I've had no problem using all 3GB of VRAM in games on 1920x1200px, sure it doesn't turn to slideshow but the driver is somehow limiting the textures that can be loaded into VRAM etc.
Sure when hard out of VRAM it's a true slideshow and rarely happens these days since most of the VRAM is textures that can get limited and engines and drivers are not as stupid as to hard limit the GPU.

Still 4GB is the least I'm considering to buy for 1920x1200px.

I have no problem with 4GB versions of 4xx in terms of VRAM size but I do have a problem in terms of VRAM quality as they use cheaper slower Hynix and not Samsung. Where as NV cards always stick to faster VRAM chips from Samsung no matter what. AMD AIBs. only bother to use Samsung on the 8GB 8GHz models frown.gif

I know they have made improvements to the memory compression and such and finally it should be on par with Tahiti 384bit using only 256bit width but it sure does help to use the better VRAM chips and not cheap out.
The hoarding/greediness and lack of proper supply on 4xx is again ridiculous from AIBs. They have no high end to hoard $ on so they do it on mainstream since that's the fastest chip they get from AMD.

Can't wait for HBM2, this GDDR needs to go.
Edited by JackCY - 8/25/16 at 2:44am
post #414 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

That card will run out of juice to drive things before it runs out of VRAM even with "only" 4 GB. The GPU-z and other programs like that actually do not report the real number that game is "needing" to run - they include cache which is a lot more situational thing and might lead to some minor texture pop in if running particularly high texture levels, but not a slideshow. Slideshow happens when card truly runs out of VRAM but when that happens the effect is quite dramatic - straight to single digit fps from wherever you were sitting before. In my experience about 3-4 fps with dual channel ram and about 7-8 fps with quad channel.

Let me add that those relatively high RAM capacities on the modern cards are more for marketing than because of actual needs, considering the resolutions people run normally. In my experience you can stretch 1 GB as far as 8 megapixels (4k or 4x 1080p screens) with AA off. With 2 GB you will run into the wall rarely when running 8 megapixels or higher screen reso (4K or above) and you go for the highest available texture size + apply more than 2x AA. Depends on the game, perhaps some more recent games are more vRAM hungry. With 3 GB I did not encounter the vRAM limit ever, normally the card ran out of juice before it ran out of vRAM when playing at 5400x1920 reso (5x1080 eyefinity). Now I have 8 GB ofc (390X) and I honestly can not imagine what would I need to do to run out of vRAM in a game. This opinion/impression is based on running higher than normal resolutions for the past 5-6 years on pathetically under-powered hardware for such resolutions. Starting with a single 5770 and 3x1080p eyefinity, going to 2x 6770 crossfire and 5x1080p eyefinity, followed by a 7870 and still 5x1080p, then by a 4K screen + 4 auxiliary displays, then a single 7950 and same setup and now I'm already getting somewhere with 390X at 4K screen plus 4 auxiliary 1080p screen on 7870.

You will run out of VRAM much sooner when you use higher res textures. Image buffers are TINY in comparison to texture and geometry storage in current games. 4gb/frame is doable with 3.5gb or so of textures if the game uses tons of render targets @ 1080p. The GPU is effectively consuming the raw scene data and spitting out a single image buffer image for each frame, the final output resolution has no real impact on the size of the scene data.
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post #415 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

You will run out of VRAM much sooner when you use higher res textures. Image buffers are TINY in comparison to texture and geometry storage in current games. 4gb/frame is doable with 3.5gb or so of textures if the game uses tons of render targets @ 1080p. The GPU is effectively consuming the raw scene data and spitting out a single image buffer image for each frame, the final output resolution has no real impact on the size of the scene data.

I am not saying that it is impossible to run out of vRAM, I'm not one of these "640kb is enough for forever" guys wink.gif The more the merrier and if the price gap is small enough I would go for 8 GB model over the 4 GB one any day.

I just do not think the 470 has enough juice to actually use so high res textures on high enough target resolution to max out 4 GB not to mention 8 GB. Ofc reality is not far more complex so I cant claim that there is no game in existence where extra 4 GB on 470 would make the difference, I just think its highly unlikely. Render buffer is indeed quite small, however, some of the things that go into assembling the final render buffer frame can be pretty memory intensive - say, supersampling AA, for example. But these things are not computationally free - to actually make use of these techniques that make such a large memory impact the card would need to have a certain level of performance to maintain a playable frame rate in the process.

For 470 I'm getting a flashback into the era when 4870 was the jewel of AMD lineup and they introduced 5770. Back then the discussion was about DX10 / DX 11 vs DX 9c and the memory bus size was also different, if I remeber correct then 256 bits for 4870 and 128 bit (but cloked higher) for 5770. I had both cards for a little while and while I at first liked 4870 more (marginally cheaper, performed better in DX9 titles) a little while later I found 5770 to be a bit more useful because of some new things that were introduced with that generation, for example, Eyefinity and ability to run more than 2 displays from one card. Later when 6770 was rebranded I even found out that it was possible to flash a 5770 into a 6770 adding HDMI1.4a support with the Sapphire card I had.
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post #416 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

If a game needs more than ~4gb of VRAM a single 470/480 would give you a slideshow. 256gb/s is good for 4gb of assets at ~60 FPS and 8gb at ~30 FPS (in a best case scenario).

That card will run out of juice to drive things before it runs out of VRAM even with "only" 4 GB. The GPU-z and other programs like that actually do not report the real number that game is "needing" to run - they include cache which is a lot more situational thing and might lead to some minor texture pop in if running particularly high texture levels, but not a slideshow. Slideshow happens when card truly runs out of VRAM but when that happens the effect is quite dramatic - straight to single digit fps from wherever you were sitting before. In my experience about 3-4 fps with dual channel ram and about 7-8 fps with quad channel.

Let me add that those relatively high RAM capacities on the modern cards are more for marketing than because of actual needs, considering the resolutions people run normally. In my experience you can stretch 1 GB as far as 8 megapixels (4k or 4x 1080p screens) with AA off. With 2 GB you will run into the wall rarely when running 8 megapixels or higher screen reso (4K or above) and you go for the highest available texture size + apply more than 2x AA. Depends on the game, perhaps some more recent games are more vRAM hungry. With 3 GB I did not encounter the vRAM limit ever, normally the card ran out of juice before it ran out of vRAM when playing at 5400x1920 reso (5x1080 eyefinity). Now I have 8 GB ofc (390X) and I honestly can not imagine what would I need to do to run out of vRAM in a game. This opinion/impression is based on running higher than normal resolutions for the past 5-6 years on pathetically under-powered hardware for such resolutions. Starting with a single 5770 and 3x1080p eyefinity, going to 2x 6770 crossfire and 5x1080p eyefinity, followed by a 7870 and still 5x1080p, then by a 4K screen + 4 auxiliary displays, then a single 7950 and same setup and now I'm already getting somewhere with 390X at 4K screen plus 4 auxiliary 1080p screen on 7870.

In GTA V with my old 6870 1GB I ran out of VRAM at 1680*1050 with everything set to low. Now, with a 4GB card I can set everything to high and it will use more than half of my VRAM at 1920*1080 so you are pretty wrong when it comes to VRAM use.

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post #417 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

In GTA V with my old 6870 1GB I ran out of VRAM at 1680*1050 with everything set to low. Now, with a 4GB card I can set everything to high and it will use more than half of my VRAM at 1920*1080 so you are pretty wrong when it comes to VRAM use.

I'm not familiar with that game so cant comment on that. What I was expressing was my experience in running said relatively high resolutions on the hardware with noted vRAM sizes between 1 GB and 8 GB. And I dont mean just Dwarf Fortress. Some shooters, most demanding of these probably Crysis 1, 2, Metro 2033. Some MMO's, like up to 6 clients of EVE Online simultaneously. Modded Skyrim as well - but that game is like 32 bit, particularly inefficient engine and is probably not the most fitting example even though with mods it can take quite a toll on gfx cards.
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post #418 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

I'm not familiar with that game so cant comment on that. What I was expressing was my experience in running said relatively high resolutions on the hardware with noted vRAM sizes between 1 GB and 8 GB. And I dont mean just Dwarf Fortress. Some shooters, most demanding of these probably Crysis 1, 2, Metro 2033. Some MMO's, like up to 6 clients of EVE Online simultaneously. Modded Skyrim as well - but that game is like 32 bit, particularly inefficient engine and is probably not the most fitting example even though with mods it can take quite a toll on gfx cards.

EVE:O uses 512mb of VRAM for the most part, and when a client is not the primary window its memory requests get pushed out to system ram FTMP. That is unless you run it on an XP machine. Where Vista and newer use only one GPU and DMA the data to additional GPU's, XP only did that if a window crossed screen boundaries. In theory, in XP you can fully utilize 6+ GPU's if they each drive a different monitor.

Pretty much every game you listed maxes out at 1.5gb VRAM (textures+buffers) or under without mods, I can tell you that by their age.

As for the RX 470 not having the power to back up more than 4gb of VRAM... that's mainly due to bandwidth. If the GPU was out of steam already you would see zero performance scaling when adjusting only memory clocks. Yet we see linear gains with memory speed.
Edited by KarathKasun - 8/25/16 at 2:23pm
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post #419 of 437
While on the subject of VRAM, I want to ask you guys if you found that games use different amounts of VRAM at the same settings depending on how much VRAM is avalible.To be clear I'm not talking about the scenario where the memory is maxed out. From my total casual and non scientific monitoring of a R9 285 and a RX 480 and other graphics card benchmarks on the web I am under that impresion.
post #420 of 437
the amount of vram used doesnt really affect the cores of the gpu. most games seem 2 be caped at 3.5 gb of vram @ 1080p, maybe with aa x4 left over. the amount of vram buffer spaces doesnt matter so much if u got fast drives 2 constantly load more textures into the gpu.

im looking forward 2 a game that actually uses 8gb of textures every second and looking at doom with vulcan, im sure @ 100 fps it could stand 2 throw out a lot more higher quality textures
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