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G.Fast CPEs as Ethernet Bridges?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I am in a fairly odd situation where I need to bridge over internet in a low latency fashion, but my actual avenues are rather limited. So far, I've looked into everything except an actual DSL bridge over a single pair of phone lines.

Wireless does not work as the signal is too degraded, and powerline standards are even worse. Any sort of home Coax solution is a no go as the router is too far away from any of the Coax lines in the house (so no HomePNA, MoCA, or low frequency Wifi over Coax.) I also cannot run Cat5/6 through the walls, through the air ductwork, or outside either.

However, there is a single 4 wire phone RJ11 port that is literally right next to my desk. 2 of the wires have ADSL2+ on the upper frequency range though, and is also used as POTS. Therefore, I probably cannot try to hotwire 100BASE-T to the four wires due to all of the interference on two of them.

Therefore, my next thought is that there are several VDSL2 bridge solutions which could work on the other unused two wires, but are still not ideal due to the asymmetric nature of the signal (even in VDSL2 symmetric mode.) This seems to be due to the use of the frequency based signal separation, interference, and the way it is designed (so no getting around it.) This also makes needing a CO a necessary as well as regular VDSL2 CPEs are not going to talk on the whole range.

However, I just realized that G.Fast does not need this due to using time division separation (so regardless of you being the CPE or the CO, they should talk to each other in the same fashion.) Therefore, isn't it just possible to wire up two G.Fast CPEs (with some custom firmware tweaks) to make them work as ethernet bridges?
post #2 of 11
The NVT NV-EC1701U-KIT1 or similar device is probably what you want rather than modifying DSL modems, as it can run @ 100mbps over pretty much any pare of wires you give it (its designed to run over security alarm wire). Double check to make sure you don't have 6VAC or something else on the unused wires in the existing RJ-11 jacks as the NVT system runs at 48V.
post #3 of 11
depends on if those pairs are solid or a frayed pair. if they're solid like the 18gauge ( like Cat5e) you should be able to push up to 100Mbps as Shamrock suggests above.

It also depends on how your circuit is and your capacity level is in your area for DSL.

Whos your provider by chance?

I guess my big question for you is, what are you trying to do lol

If you can answer that, I can try to help you better.
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Actually, it's just over a house 2 wire connection, no long distance required. The pair is not connected to anything (so no voltage over it presently,) and the wires are solid to my knowledge. Unsure of which gauge, but the short distance just from the first to the third floor should not impact the signal too much. Purely in house, very short local loops.

I was looking at the G.Fast CPEs due to the likely lower cost compared to the dedicated bridges. In addition, wanted the "fun" weird challenge of making CPEs talk to each other, and the "symmetrical" frequency coverage of G.Fast makes this possible without having to fight with VDSL2 CO/CPE mode bridges.
post #5 of 11
I still dont understand what you're trying to accomplish lol,

What are YOU wanting to do with this?

I can work with you as far as suggestions on things if you can give me an accurate answer on what your end goal is lol.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudforever View Post

I still dont understand what you're trying to accomplish lol,

What are YOU wanting to do with this?

I can work with you as far as suggestions on things if you can give me an accurate answer on what your end goal is lol.

Router -> CPE Bridge -> Home Wiring -> CPE Bridge -> Computer.

Use two pairs of internal home wiring (since ethernet is not wired in) to bridge the router two stories down with a computer upstairs. I know there are VDSL2 bridges, but I am researching explicitly if G.Fast CPEs can do this job instead.
post #7 of 11
as long as its not frayed red / green / yellow / black copper and its 1 solid 18guage, it'll work , yes, but then you'd have to find your DMARC outside in your box or by where all your cabling is downstairs by the electrical switch box is normally where its at. You'd have to tone out each one of them and either use a NID of some type. Ive not done that personally out of my lifespan of doing Telcom but its all the same wiring. just the only problem is, is degration of all the splits you'll be doing which is a minimum of 6 splits, use the method of:

Use green and orange method for your RJ 45 jacks you'll have to replace.

The other cables are for VOIP and POE so they arent required through this.

ONLY if its not with the frayed cable as I stated above




When you see some cables that come with only 2 pair instead of 4 pair inside the crystals, its because they do not support VOIP or POE which is no problem, its not requred in most cases.

You'll have to purchase RJ45 keystones and wall plates, at least 2, one for each upstairs and downstairs, and either a NID or a punchdown, or switch for more ports ( do not get the snap together connectors, horrible horrible thing to use) and change them to RJ45 ends on either side and you' can use a switch at the other location. But once again you'll most likely see degration from splits and longevity on the house wiring or quality of the wiring
Edited by Cloudforever - 8/11/16 at 12:12pm
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudforever View Post

as long as its not frayed red / green / yellow / black copper and its 1 solid 18guage, it'll work

I only have the opportunity to use two wires here, the other two wires (red/green, pair 1) has ADSL2+ on the line and likely interferes with the spectrum used by G.Fast. 1 pair only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudforever View Post

but then you'd have to find your DMARC outside in your box or by where all your cabling is downstairs by the electrical switch box is normally where its at.

I would have to investigate this, but I believe the second pair is already isolated from the outside box/splitter unit. From what I am understanding of your post though (based on the material I can understand/assess,) this would yield ethernet ports with 4 wires (which is not possible due to the ADSL2+ and telephone communication on pair 1.)

I was only wanting to directly communicate over two wires over pair 2 over the house using a single untwisted pair connection via G.Fast. This would not require having to switch out the faceplates as a RJ14 (RJ11 phone port) already has the pair available for me to use. I could understand having to cross it over though (similar to older ethernet.)

This is honestly looking more complicated than I was wanting it to be and I probably will not even bother now, but +Rep for attempting to help me.
post #9 of 11
hey no worries, you'd be able to do it accordingly with the 2 pairs, which is why I wanted to give you a picture for reference smile.gif

but since you only have 1 pair doing this, you'll lose way too much and it wouldnt be worth it if you only can use 1 pair vs 2. I just recently quit doing Telcom for TWC, but i am very familiar with how fiber overlay or copper optics works smile.gif


Now my big question to you is, does your modem absolutely have to be there, or can it be moved to another location? for example, if your telephone lines as I stated above, as long as they are at least 2 pair, which is red/green and yellow/black or blue/white and orange/white, and a seperate router that you use, you can still attempt this set up no problem


Now keep in mind however, it sounds easy the way I'm typing this out but if you're coming out of telephone line as in your copper strand I wouldnt want you to mess it up lol but its very possible to do , yes
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
No, router cannot be moved, nor can I use both pairs.

I'll probably wind up settling on setting up two high powered directional wireless bridges and just bruteforcing it. Just figured that I could try the single pair DSL route first before resorting to this instead.
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