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New Noctua Fans for 2 Systems

post #1 of 7
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I'm going to buy some fans but can't decide which ones.

I have two systems which I'm going to equip with some Noctua.

1st System

Corsair Carbide Air 540

Front 3 x 120

P12 PWM?

Back 1x 140

A14 PWM?


2nd System

Coolermaster Stacker STC-T0

Front 4 x 120

P12 PWM?

Back 1x 120

P12 PWM?


I looked up which fan would suit best on the Noctua Homepage the P12 talks about tight fan grills

The Coolermaster has 4 4in3 modules with 4 hdd each and dust filters in front.

The Carbide Air 540 is well known so does not need any description I assume.
post #2 of 7
Noctua are not the best value or necessarily best performing fans. There are many others to look at. Check out Thermalbench fan reviews with graphs like this one of airflow to noise level. Geggeg's use of a radiator give similar resistance to airflow as a front grill and filter do.

http://thermalbench.com/2016/04/18/fractal-design-venturi-hp-12-120mm-pwm-fan/3/

You can see how PH-F120MP and Venturi HP-12 do very well.

We can add Gentle Typhoons and Vardar to the list



New Corsair ML may be good, but I would give it a month or so of use before I would buy any.



PH-F120XP (PWM) and PH-F120SP (variable voltage) are also good, as are others.

A case can only flow as much air as the smaller of it's intake or exhaust venting flows. All air flowing into case has to be able to flow out, or more air cannot flow in. So if there is not enough exhaust area to flow as much air a intake fans can push into case, the case will only flow as much as the exhaust area lets out of the case. I like a case to have more intake fans than exhaust so surplus intake flow leaks out of the case rather than in. With filtered intakes this keeps the case almost completely free of dust.

Case airflow is not so much about moving air through the case, but about supplying components with air that is as close as possible to room ambient as possible. This means the case airflow needs to flow in such a way as to push the components' heated exhaust back and away from the cool component intake air. With GPUs dumping air almost everywhere inside of the case this becomes a real challenge .. one that usually means good intake fan placement resulting in cool air being pushed to and around component. This means the cool air is pushing the component's (usually GPU) heated air back and out of case. Exhaust fans in back may help and are often not needed, but it is really something that needs to be tested to see what works best.

To me having good airflow means having case fans cycle their speed just like CPU and GPU cooler fans do. This way case fans supply the airflow rates the components need. Not case fans running fast creating more airflow than needed (and making more noise) when component fans are at idle, or case fans not enough airflow to supply their needs when they are spinning fans to cool their working components.
post #3 of 7

Looking at the Carbide 540, doesn't it call for two 140mm intake fans? When you can use 140mm fans, do so: they move more air more quietly than 120mm fans. I use an R5, for example, with two Noctua NF-A14 ULN fans as intakes. They are maybe a foot from my ear and I hardly hear them.

 

As exhaust I have removed the rear grill. The rear "grill" is just a convenience for steel case makers -- you don't see them in aluminum cases. I cut my grill out, then line the edges with the plastic spines from cheap report covers, cut to fit.

 

If you don't go that route, see if you can find a Thermalright TY-143A SQ. Perfect for exhaust. If you can't find one, use an NF-A14 FLX (1200 RPM) or an NF-A14 PWM with LNA (brings it to 1200 RPM).

 

As for the Stacker, you're stuck with 120mm fans. The best 120mm fans are Gentle Typhoons, closely followed by low and medium speed  San Ace "Silent" series. I just finished reviewing the Corsair ML Pro for Vortez. I would have to disagree with the results cited above. But then, we measure different things.

 

If you look into the San Ace, the 9S1212L401 is an outstanding case fan. The problem with San Ace fans is that they come with no terminals. You either have to solder on a fan tail, or use a crimp tool or needle nose pliers to affix crimp terminals yourself, then put them in a plug housing. I crimped a lot of San Ace fans that way before I discovered a purpose-built crimp tool.

 

I  was able to get GT's before Scythe quit selling them. For long years I used an 800 RPM GT as my intake. On my second case I tried two NF-p12's. Eventually, though, I went back to GT's.

 

You may be unable to get GT's of the right speed -- 1850 RPM is too fast for a case fan -- and you may not enjoy the hassle of San Aces (I loved the technical work). So you may look at other case fans. Just remember that you will hear front fans, and the softer they are, the better. Also remember not to reject the good enough in favor of the best.

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post #4 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

Looking at the Carbide 540, doesn't it call for two 140mm intake fans? When you can use 140mm fans, do so: they move more air more quietly than 120mm fans. I use an R5, for example, with two Noctua NF-A14 ULN fans as intakes. They are maybe a foot from my ear and I hardly hear them.

As exhaust I have removed the rear grill. The rear "grill" is just a convenience for steel case makers -- you don't see them in aluminum cases. I cut my grill out, then line the edges with the plastic spines from cheap report covers, cut to fit.

If you don't go that route, see if you can find a Thermalright TY-143A SQ. Perfect for exhaust. If you can't find one, use an NF-A14 FLX (1200 RPM) or an NF-A14 PWM with LNA (brings it to 1200 RPM).

As for the Stacker, you're stuck with 120mm fans. The best 120mm fans are Gentle Typhoons, closely followed by low and medium speed  San Ace "Silent" series. I just finished reviewing the Corsair ML Pro for Vortez. I would have to disagree with the results cited above. But then, we measure different things.

If you look into the San Ace, the 9S1212L401 is an outstanding case fan. The problem with San Ace fans is that they come with no terminals. You either have to solder on a fan tail, or use a crimp tool or needle nose pliers to affix crimp terminals yourself, then put them in a plug housing. I crimped a lot of San Ace fans that way before I discovered a purpose-built crimp tool.

I  was able to get GT's before Scythe quit selling them. For long years I used an 800 RPM GT as my intake. On my second case I tried two NF-p12's. Eventually, though, I went back to GT's.

You may be unable to get GT's of the right speed -- 1850 RPM is too fast for a case fan -- and you may not enjoy the hassle of San Aces (I loved the technical work). So you may look at other case fans. Just remember that you will hear front fans, and the softer they are, the better. Also remember not to reject the good enough in favor of the best.
Maybe I'm not understand what you are saying.
First you say to use TY-143 Sq (140mm / 2500rpm) fan for an exhaust case fan, then say 120mm / 1850rpm PWM Gentle Typhoon fan is too fast. How can a 1850 rpm PWM fan be too fast if a 2500rpm fan is not? confused.gif

Your comparisons definitely show the TY-147A Sq and TY-143 Sq being better than competition. thumb.gif

Vortez review:
. 40cfm & 23dB @ 1199rpm for NF-A14 PWM w/ LNA
. 49cfm & 24dB @ 1349rpm forTY-147A Sq
. 53cfm & 30dB @ 1579rpm for NF-A 140 PWM
. 62cfm & 36dB @ 1974rpm for ML 140
. 64cfm & 35dB @ 1954rpm for FX140
. 93cfm & 40dB @ 2524rpm for TY-143 Sq
107cfm & 47dB @ 2952rpm for NF-A 14-3000 (assume this is NF-A14 IPPC 3000?)

. 66cfm&30.5dB@ 2200rpm for Gentle Typhoon (assume this is GT 2150rpm PWM?)
. 61cfm & 36dB @ 2404rpm for ML 120 Pro.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_ml_pro_series_review,6.html
Edited by doyll - 8/7/16 at 8:24am
post #5 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

Looking at the Carbide 540, doesn't it call for two 140mm intake fans? When you can use 140mm fans, do so: they move more air more quietly than 120mm fans. I use an R5, for example, with two Noctua NF-A14 ULN fans as intakes. They are maybe a foot from my ear and I hardly hear them.

As exhaust I have removed the rear grill. The rear "grill" is just a convenience for steel case makers -- you don't see them in aluminum cases. I cut my grill out, then line the edges with the plastic spines from cheap report covers, cut to fit.

If you don't go that route, see if you can find a Thermalright TY-143A SQ. Perfect for exhaust. If you can't find one, use an NF-A14 FLX (1200 RPM) or an NF-A14 PWM with LNA (brings it to 1200 RPM).

As for the Stacker, you're stuck with 120mm fans. The best 120mm fans are Gentle Typhoons, closely followed by low and medium speed  San Ace "Silent" series. I just finished reviewing the Corsair ML Pro for Vortez. I would have to disagree with the results cited above. But then, we measure different things.

If you look into the San Ace, the 9S1212L401 is an outstanding case fan. The problem with San Ace fans is that they come with no terminals. You either have to solder on a fan tail, or use a crimp tool or needle nose pliers to affix crimp terminals yourself, then put them in a plug housing. I crimped a lot of San Ace fans that way before I discovered a purpose-built crimp tool.

I  was able to get GT's before Scythe quit selling them. For long years I used an 800 RPM GT as my intake. On my second case I tried two NF-p12's. Eventually, though, I went back to GT's.

You may be unable to get GT's of the right speed -- 1850 RPM is too fast for a case fan -- and you may not enjoy the hassle of San Aces (I loved the technical work). So you may look at other case fans. Just remember that you will hear front fans, and the softer they are, the better. Also remember not to reject the good enough in favor of the best.
Maybe I'm not understand what you are saying.
First you say to use TY-143 Sq (140mm / 2500rpm) fan for an exhaust case fan, then say 120mm / 1850rpm PWM Gentle Typhoon fan is too fast. How can a 1850 rpm PWM fan be too fast if a 2500rpm fan is not? confused.gif

Your comparisons definitely show the TY-147A Sq and TY-143 Sq being better than competition. thumb.gif

Vortez review:
. 40cfm & 23dB @ 1199rpm for NF-A14 PWM w/ LNA
. 49cfm & 24dB @ 1349rpm forTY-147A Sq
. 53cfm & 30dB @ 1579rpm for NF-A 140 PWM
. 62cfm & 36dB @ 1974rpm for ML 140
. 64cfm & 35dB @ 1954rpm for FX140
. 93cfm & 40dB @ 2524rpm for TY-143 Sq
107cfm & 47dB @ 2952rpm for NF-A 14-3000 (assume this is NF-A14 IPPC 3000?)

. 66cfm&30.5dB@ 2200rpm for Gentle Typhoon (assume this is GT 2150rpm PWM?)
. 61cfm & 36dB @ 2404rpm for ML 120 Pro.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_ml_pro_series_review,6.html


The exhaust fan is further from you. Exhaust fans have more work to do, so they must spin faster than intakes. But the additional distance means they can be noisier. Ideally, there would be no grill, so there would be zero exhaust fan. The OP should look at item #2 in my sig. It's hilarious, but instructive.

 

The Carbide 540 calls for a 140mm exhaust fan, and so I was discussing 140mm fans. 140mm fans and 120mm fans inhabit different universes. They must be spoken of separately.

 

I didn't have room in the graph to spell out iPPC. Something had to go. It's not like there is a 3000-rpm non-iPPC Noctua out there.

 

And I agree with you that the TR fans were better than their competitors. I just let the graph speak for itself. Speaking of that, when I reviewed the NZXT fan, I brought the TY-143 down to about 2000rpm. It was comparable. Now that I have the TY-143 SQ, that comparison might be more comparable still.

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post #6 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post


The exhaust fan is further from you. Exhaust fans have more work to do, so they must spin faster than intakes. But the additional distance means they can be noisier. Ideally, there would be no grill, so there would be zero exhaust fan. The OP should look at item #2 in my sig. It's hilarious, but instructive.

The Carbide 540 calls for a 140mm exhaust fan, and so I was discussing 140mm fans. 140mm fans and 120mm fans inhabit different universes. They must be spoken of separately.

I didn't have room in the graph to spell out iPPC. Something had to go. It's not like there is a 3000-rpm non-iPPC Noctua out there.

And I agree with you that the TR fans were better than their competitors. I just let the graph speak for itself. Speaking of that, when I reviewed the NZXT fan, I brought the TY-143 down to about 2000rpm. It was comparable. Now that I have the TY-143 SQ, that comparison might be more comparable still.
While there is some logic in your statement, there are many things I don't agree with.
  • Intake vents are more restrictive which is compounded by added resistance of filter meaning they benefit from stronger fans more than exhaust.
  • The half meter difference in distance does not make much of a difference in sound levels
  • Exhaust are completely open so no sound dampening at all. of what is place
  • Intakes often have panels, deep grills, etc. that dampen the fan sound profile so sound from them is often less than same fan 1/2 meter farther way in exhaust,

Your 2nd article is indeed very instructive. thumb.gif

I understand the limitations of graph, just wanted to be sure I was interpreting the fan list properly.

I'm hoping we will see better availability of Thermalright now, espeically the TY-14x SQ series square fans as well as normal TY-14x series and coolers. They are good products. thumb.gif
post #7 of 7

I remember having a discussion months ago with a guy who in retrospect was probably the  boss. He's retired now. He asked me what I would like to see in speeds (RPM).

 

They were so late. When I think of how the TY-140 could have been joined by the TY-140 SQ in 2009 I have to shake my head. After all this time nobody has topped it.

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