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[Various] Microsoft, Sony, and other companies still use illegal warranty-void-if-removed stickers - Page 4

post #31 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

Huh? If the sticker says Warranty Void if Removed or something similar, it is effectively lying, which means it should not be done, technically illegal or not. If they enforce it (and it sounds like many do), there is no doubt it is illegal unless these articles aren't interpreting the law correctly.

Doesn't sound to me as if they are interpreting it correctly at all considering that there is nothing in the law about stickers whatsoever. This law also was predominantly dealing with large machinery like cars and tractors and such, iirc, not modern electronics, many of which can be flat out dangerous to touch or work on by untrained individuals. I mean, this is a 1975 law after all.
post #32 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Doesn't sound to me as if they are interpreting it correctly at all considering that there is nothing in the law about stickers whatsoever. This law also was predominantly dealing with large machinery like cars and tractors and such, iirc, not modern electronics, many of which can be flat out dangerous to touch or work on by untrained individuals. I mean, this is a 1975 law after all.

Hell, televisions and pogo sticks were potentially lethal in 1975. They packed more fire retardant into televisions alone in 1975 than into planes for the 2016 Fort McMurray fires. Warranties used to include comments meaning things like "won't burn your house down" or "won't cause live animals to scream at your window"..
post #33 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

Huh? If the sticker says Warranty Void if Removed or something similar, it is effectively lying, which means it should not be done, technically illegal or not. If they enforce it (and it sounds like many do), there is no doubt it is illegal unless these articles aren't interpreting the law correctly.

Doesn't sound to me as if they are interpreting it correctly at all considering that there is nothing in the law about stickers whatsoever. This law also was predominantly dealing with large machinery like cars and tractors and such, iirc, not modern electronics, many of which can be flat out dangerous to touch or work on by untrained individuals. I mean, this is a 1975 law after all.
Intent matters a lot. Having to list something explicitly is exactly how people get away with screwing each other. Loopholes are for the scourge of humanity to use.
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post #34 of 63
Too good to be true. Honestly, they just want to ensure that nobody else can play with device while it's under their responsibility (warranty) and I can understand that.
post #35 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Not necessarily. Corsair clearly states that removing any sticker, not just the security sticker, will void the warranty on their PSUs. The even now require that PSUs being returned for warranty repair or replacement have to have all the cables returned as well. Any cables missing or modified? Tough luck, Charlie, the warranty is void. Even though it is illegal, you would have to fight them on it.

Which is why I said "usually" and not "100% of every case will be exactly as I described". biggrin.gif
Edited by Scorpion49 - 8/9/16 at 1:17pm
post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhawn View Post

This is stupid. yes you can open it without voiding the warranty by law IF you do not damage the device BUT, if you cause the device to fail by opening it up and tinkering with it then yes the warranty is void and it IS legal for them to void the warranty if you opened it and broke it. What people need to do is read the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, carefully. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-50
And that's the loophole... As soon as they can pin it on you, they can and will.
post #37 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Oh yes, because MS is the only company doing this. Hell, most video cards even have these stickers (though they will usually allow for replacement of the coolers anyway). Btw, I've never heard of this "law" that bans companies from using tamper-proof stickers. Is that actually real or just a figment of this writer's imagination? Checked their link to the supposed law but I don't see anything there that guarantees you the right to tamper with a product without exclusion from the warranty? Maybe I'm just missing it?

Here is the subsection. Those who are looking for "stickers" in the laws are clueless.

Microsoft and others are stating that if the sticker is tampered with, the warranty is voided.

U.S. Code Title 15 § 2302(c)
Quote:
(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.

Also remember these are limited warranties.

If you need further explanation of subsection c or others, send me a PM.
Edited by one-shot - 8/9/16 at 5:09pm
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post #38 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Doesn't sound to me as if they are interpreting it correctly at all considering that there is nothing in the law about stickers whatsoever. This law also was predominantly dealing with large machinery like cars and tractors and such, iirc, not modern electronics, many of which can be flat out dangerous to touch or work on by untrained individuals. I mean, this is a 1975 law after all.

The U.S. Constitution was drafted in 1787. That's almost 200 years later. Should we invalidate the constitution? Rethink the reasoning behind your message. It's not logically consistent.

The fact that you were looking for the word "stickers" means you are really clueless about legal documents and don't understand how to read them.

Here is an example of the fallacy of your argument.

Example #1

Where in the constitution does it say the words internet. How can we say whatever we want within the confines of the 1st Amendment online? See? It doesn't. Therefore speech isn't protected online.

I hope you can see the fallacy of your argument.
Edited by one-shot - 8/9/16 at 5:27pm
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post #39 of 63
Magnuson moss act isn't about stickers, so don't go looking for the word sticker in there. Its about protecting consumers from denial of warranty just because you opened the pandora's box.

They can't deny warranty about faulty processor just because you replaced the hard drive. They can't deny warranty about an engine just because you replaced the air intake. They have to prove that what you did is what caused the engine to fail or malfunction.

They have to prove that you caused the malfunction, breaking a sticker wont cause a malfunction.
Edited by ghostrider85 - 8/9/16 at 6:08pm
post #40 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by one-shot View Post

The U.S. Constitution was drafted in 1787. That's almost 200 years later. Should we invalidate the constitution? Rethink the reasoning behind your message. It's not logically consistent.

The fact that you were looking for the word "stickers" means you are really clueless about legal documents and don't understand how to read them.

Here is an example of the fallacy of your argument.

Example #1

Where in the constitution does it say the words internet. How can we say whatever we want within the confines of the 1st Amendment online? See? It doesn't. Therefore speech isn't protected online.

I hope you can see the fallacy of your argument.

The stickers bit was in response to the clickbait title of the article, not a personal commentary about the law itself. The title makes it seem as though the stickers themselves are illegal which is not true at all. Another poster made this post which is my assessment of the law as well so I'll just post it here:
Quote:
Actually the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act said [the warrantor] may not exclude or limit consequential damages for a breach of any written or implied warranty on the product, UNLESS the exclusion or limitation conspicuously appears ON THE FACE OF THE WARRANTY... and On Microsoft Xbox One Warranty webpage (which is publicly available to any consummer prior to the purchase) : [Warranty Exclusions] : Microsoft is not responsible and this warranty does not apply if Your Xbox One or Accessory is: (c) opened, modified, or tampered with (including, for example, any attempt to defeat any Xbox One or Accessory technical limitation, security, or anti-piracy mechanism, etc.), or its serial number is altered or removed;

In other words they can void your warranty, nothing in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act prohibit them to do so !!!
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